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Anything new with Jesus Gonzales case?

smithman

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2007
Messages
718
Location
Waukesha, Wisconsin, USA
I am sure the DA is out to crucify Jesus, no pun intended, seriously. I have no doubt that Jesus feared for his life. I hope the judge is allowing testimony about the rough past of the two people who assaulted him. I just hope that every bullet that left Jesus' barrel was preceded by an imminent threat to bodily harm. As soon as 1 bullet leaves the barrel that is not preceded by that, you may be charged.
 

GLOCK21GB

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Apr 22, 2009
Messages
4,347
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
No gun owners ????? just a bunch of commie anti gun libs as a Jury of his peers ? WHAT A JOKE !!! That's not Justice to have a man's life, a man who felt he had no other means of survival than to use his weapon in self defense.now his freedoms lie in the hands of a bunch of Libs , who likely HATE guns and those who own them.... HE is soo screwed ! I hope I am wrong !!!! Prayers in bound for Jesus.....
 
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thebigsd

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
Can I just say that not all non-gun owners are raging liberals. We are judging people and we know nothing about them. That is worse than accusing the jury of being biased before they even hear the case. Jurors have to be neutral, in many cases the attorneys are given two or three jury strikes with which they can strike any juror. My guess is this is what may have happened in this case with the gun owners as well as those who knew someone who had been murdered. If any of us who have posted in this thread were called for this case, just about all of us would be dismissed because we are biased.

That being said I hope Mr. Gonzalez has a fair trial and that the jury makes the correct decision. For all we know the jury could consist of non-gun owning conservatives. Let's let the facts of the case play out in court.
 

protias

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
7,308
Location
SE, WI
Thanks, yes I missed that one. It's pretty sad when only 2 of 34 potential jurors even own a gun. I'm wondering, did they ask how many of those 34 were prohibited from owning a firearm?

Not sure why they would throw out a guy whos friend was run over by an LA cop.....cops aren't involved in this case other than investigating and arresting.

I can understand why the one that acquitted a defendant in a similar case would be "tossed" but if the evidence pointed that waqy it pointed that way.

Our jury selection process definitely has some issues. A "jury of your peers" yet anyone who would actually be a peer is tossed out of the juror pool. Anyone who espouses any knowledge of the rights of a jury is tossed.

I'm pretty sure if you are prohibited from owning a firearm, you cannot serve on a jury (felons).
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
I sure hope Jesus' attorney is smart enough to pick up on some of the witness inconsitencies already surfacing i.e. bartender now saying that the victims were not being uruly to others but only to each other. Originally she said they were upsetting other patrons and burning dollar bills and had to be escorted out of the bar. Also the woman who now claims she didn't hear any arguing, which she calims she usually could hear plainly, saying there were five shots and the cops recovered seven shell casings. There's a question as to who's car was involved. According to the initial media reports Corn said it was his car. Now he testifies that it was John's car. Corn claims he doesn't remember anything after he was shot and didn't hear the shots made wnen John was shot but claims John drove North on Shea after he was shot when in fact he drove South. If the quotes the MJS has that are supposedly from Corn are correct. Quotes whein Corn says he doesn't remember anything after being shot and didn't hear the shots that hit John then his testimony is only good up to the point in time when he was shot. The only valid witness after Corn was shot is Jesus. Going to be an interesting case.

My opinion.
 
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thebigsd

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Joined
Mar 23, 2010
Messages
3,535
Location
Quarryville, PA
H

Herr Heckler Koch

Guest
I hope that y'all noticed
WCCA said:
2:45 p.m. Sworn for defense: * Officer Jon Duchateau, Milwaukee Police Dept. Defense rests. State and defense rest. Testimony closed. Jury out of box: 3:05 p.m
A twenty minute defense.
 

Teej

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Messages
522
Location
, Wisconsin, USA
Wow. Prosecution rests at 2:25...and testimony closed at 3:05?!

Doesn't sound like much of a defense was put forth.
 

Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
I sure hope Jesus' attorney is smart enough to pick up on some of the witness inconsitencies already surfacing ...... Going to be an interesting case...

The prosecution is going to focus on what happened once the 3 met that night. I believe that they will declare everything prior to the confrontation as irrelevant.
Without Jesus testifying I do not understand how the defense can make their case. Closing arguments are tomorrow so we will soon find out.
 

hazek

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 22, 2011
Messages
88
Location
--
wtf, he's not going to tell his side? Does he want to get convicted?? I don't get it. :eek:
 

Brass Magnet

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Apr 23, 2009
Messages
2,818
Location
Right Behind You!, Wisconsin, USA
Well, the defense asked for a direct verdict and he's not taking the stand so my uneducated guess is that they are seeing if the jury can even convict on 1st degree and at the same time setting up for an appeal. I think it's a decent strategy as a conviction on 1st degree has a higher standard and an appeal could conceivably focus on self defense.

Of course I'm probably wrong.
 

Captain Nemo

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2010
Messages
1,029
Location
Somewhere, Wisconsin, USA
Something "fishy" going on. No allowing Jesus to tstify was a smart move. If he took the stand that would open the door to the prosecution to bring up all kinds of garbage. As it is the prosecution has a weak case. Because of the inconsistent testimony of witnesses and that Corn admits he did not hear or see Jesus actually shoot Johns only Jesus and Johns knows what happened after Corn was disabled, raising a large element of doubt. All the prosecution can really do is convince the jury that Jesus was not in imminent danger of great bodily harm or death.
 
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kukuforguns

New member
Joined
Sep 17, 2010
Messages
4
Location
Southern California
Wisconsin defines first degree intentional homicide as follows:

(1)  Offenses.
(a) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever causes the death of another human being with intent to kill that person or another is guilty of a Class A felony.
(b) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever causes the death of an unborn child with intent to kill that unborn child, kill the woman who is pregnant with that unborn child or kill another is guilty of a Class A felony.
(2) Mitigating circumstances. The following are affirmative defenses to prosecution under this section which mitigate the offense to 2nd-degree intentional homicide under s. 940.05:
(a) Adequate provocation. Death was caused under the influence of adequate provocation as defined in s. 939.44.
(b) Unnecessary defensive force. Death was caused because the actor believed he or she or another was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that the force used was necessary to defend the endangered person, if either belief was unreasonable.
(c) Prevention of felony. Death was caused because the actor believed that the force used was necessary in the exercise of the privilege to prevent or terminate the commission of a felony, if that belief was unreasonable.
(d) Coercion; necessity. Death was caused in the exercise of a privilege under s. 939.45 (1).
(3) Burden of proof. When the existence of an affirmative defense under sub. (2) has been placed in issue by the trial evidence, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the facts constituting the defense did not exist in order to sustain a finding of guilt under sub. (1).

In order to find Jesus guilty of first degree homicide (regardless of self-defense) for each of the "victims," the jury must believe that there is no reasonable doubt that Jesus intended to kill each victim. Given that Jesus immediately returned to his apartment and contacted the police -- without putting extra bullets into the victims -- Jesus' attorney can convincingly argue that there is a reasonable doubt that Jesus intended to kill the victims. This is a viable strategy. This is where a good defense attorney could win the case. If Jesus intended to kill Jered Corn, why did he immediately summon emergency services? By limiting the charges to 1st degree homicide, the prosecution has to convince the jury that it would be unreasonable to believe that Jesus did not intend to kill the victims.

In addition, the evidence introduced by the prosecution's witnesses will have included that Jesus told the police he acted in self-defense. Accordingly, there is evidence of mitigating factors. It now becomes the prosecution's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there were no facts that would justify self-defense. This is a very heavy burden, and the only evidence that the police will have on this issue is the testimony of Jered Corn. If the jury does not believe Mr. Corn's testimony, then the prosecution will have failed in this heightened burden. If the defense got into evidence Mr. Corn's criminal record and his unruly behavior earlier in the night, then Jered's credibility will be at issue.

However, the jury will wonder why Jared did not testify.
 

We-the-People

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
2,221
Location
White City, Oregon, USA
Gotta love the unbiased reporting of FACTS in the case..."The surviving victim of a 2010 shooting by gun rights activist Jesus Gonzalez ..." and burying the 911 tape of Jesus calling to state he'd been assaulted 11 paragraphs down........

The defense strategy must be that intentional first degree has not been proved because Jesus could not have known the two would be out there.

Edit add:
Looks like someone posted the "elements" as I was asking what they were in WI (prior post to this one). That must be the strategy...and the testimony as reported sure doesn't match the earlier reporting which undoubtedly was based on police reports that are in evidence.

Corn is alive...obviously Jesus had no intent to kill him or he wouldn't be testifying as he was laying helplessly on the ground. The other "victim" was able to flee as well and was not pursued. From the way I read the posted WI statute, even if the jury thinks Jesus' belief that he was in fear of life or limb doesn't meet the reasonable person standard, it doesn't warrant first-degree.

So, can the goobmnt then refile second-degree? They have "unlimited" resources and perhaps that's THEIR strategy...go for the jugular and exhaust Jesus' ability to fund a defense on the "do over" with the lesser charge?
 
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Interceptor_Knight

Regular Member
Joined
May 18, 2007
Messages
2,851
Location
Green Bay, Wisconsin, USA
In addition, the evidence introduced by the prosecution's witnesses will have included that Jesus told the police he acted in self-defense. Accordingly, there is evidence of mitigating factors. It now becomes the prosecution's burden to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there were no facts that would justify self-defense....

Here is something you may find of interest...
940.01(1)

(1) Offenses.

940.01(1)(a)

(a) Except as provided in sub. (2), whoever causes the death of another human being with intent to kill that person or another is guilty of a Class A felony.



940.01(2)

(2) Mitigating circumstances. The following are affirmative defenses to prosecution under this section which mitigate the offense to 2nd-degree intentional homicide under § 940.05:

940.01(2)(b)

(b) Unnecessary defensive force. Death was caused because the actor believed he or she or another was in imminent danger of death or great bodily harm and that the force used was necessary to defend the endangered person, if either belief was unreasonable.

40.01(3)

(3) Burden of proof. When the existence of an affirmative defense under sub. (2) has been placed in issue by the trial evidence, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the facts constituting the defense did not exist in order to sustain a finding of guilt under sub. (1).
 
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