Denied Access to Oakland Co. Records

[Scotchman]

Out of State CPL

I went into the Oakland County Records Building to get fingerprinted for my out of state Maine CPL.

This will provide exemption from the Michigan gun free zones listed in MCL 750.234d, and MCL 750.237a.

I was denied entry to this public building because of a policy that contradicts Michigan's preemption law MCL 123.1102.

Can someone explain this? PM me or here? Or point me somewhere else to read up.

How does this permit provide exemption and is it only certain state CPLs? I current have my Mi CPL.

 

[TheQ]

Can someone explain this? PM me or here? Or point me somewhere else to read up.

How does this permit provide exemption and is it only certain state CPLs? I current have my Mi CPL.

Read the exemptions listed in MCL 750.234d. Language seems pretty clear.

 

[Venator]

That may be true...but the OCSD and the Oakland County Prosecutor have made their distaste for stainless1911 plainly clear. They very well could arrest and charge him for that violation and let a jury decide. All the while costing him money he doesn't have. No one said being an activist is cheap.

Nor was I saying he should do anything. Just commenting on the language of the law and many people's interpretation. Court is always a crap shoot.

 

[Venator]

Neil, what in the F is all this in your email for??!?! This is not pertinent to the issue. The more giberish you put in your emails, the more likely they are to be ignored. Carl Levin?!?! UN treaty?!?! Wtf. Stay on point. Geesh.

I agree, cut it to two sentences.

 

[mirussell]

The others are correct an out os state CPL will work for 750.234d. It will not work for concealed carry. We and others have researched the hell out of this.

Venator first of all i'm not trying to be a ass but where did you come up with this info i'd like to look at it
i see that 750.234d says
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

a person lic by another state but we don't accept a NON RESIDENT permit from any state so how does a permit that we don't even accept give you power to carry if you were to say a resident permit i would agree

 

[WilDChilD]

Venator first of all i'm not trying to be a ass but where did you come up with this info i'd like to look at it
i see that 750.234d says
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

a person lic by another state but we don't accept a NON RESIDENT permit from any state so how does a permit that we don't even accept give you power to carry if you were to say a resident permit i would agree

We dont accept a non resident permit for cc. He is not talking about cc laws. You have 2 different sets of laws. Need to read more and understand all the laws about cc only pertian to cc not all firearms laws.

 

[Michigander]

Neil, what in the F is all this in your email for??!?! This is not pertinent to the issue. The more giberish you put in your emails, the more likely they are to be ignored. Carl Levin?!?! UN treaty?!?! Wtf. Stay on point. Geesh.

Just another example of the normal reasons why I will not be working with or on behalf of stainless.

But again, if anyone else wishes to help me contact the sheriff directly regarding clarification, I will happily write up a memo, and we can sign it, then hand deliver it to the front desk cop at their HQ. If anyone is interested in this, please PM me, and we'll make it happen.

 

[Scotchman]

We dont accept a non resident permit for cc. He is not talking about cc laws. You have 2 different sets of laws. Need to read more and understand all the laws about cc only pertian to cc not all firearms laws.

Thats why we asked... But we need help understanding this. Myself included. I dont mind reading and look at 750.234d again but am not sure of the logic. Maybe thats the problem.... Logicians did not write it ;-)

So what does this mean? He wanted an out-of-state permit to OC or transport a firearm in a PFZ instead of a MI CPL? Thats all? I dont understand if that is the case. Why not just get a Mi CPL?

 

[Michigander]

So what does this mean? He wanted an out-of-state permit to OC or transport a firearm in a PFZ instead of a MI CPL? Thats all? I dont understand if that is the case. Why not just get a Mi CPL?

There are 3 potential reasons I'm aware of for getting an out of state permit.

Criminal convictions DQing someone from getting a Mi CPL

Not having to register your handguns

Being 18-20 and a Mi resident.

 

[Raggs]

Which, if any of these is pertinent in this case ( stainless's getting one) ?

There are 3 potential reasons I'm aware of for getting an out of state permit.

Criminal convictions DQing someone from getting a Mi CPL

Not having to register your handguns

Being 18-20 and a Mi resident.

 

[Scotchman]

There are 3 potential reasons I'm aware of for getting an out of state permit.
1) Criminal convictions DQing someone from getting a Mi CPL

2) Not having to register your handguns

3) Being 18-20 and a Mi resident.

#1 is easily understood, but can you briefly explain #2 & #3. Some of this is still new to a few here.

And with the recent bill signed, isn't registration and Purchase Permits done?

Patience with the new guys please....

 

[DrTodd]

Which, if any of these is pertinent in this case ( stainless's getting one) ?

One of these is pertinent.

 

[DrTodd]

#1 is easily understood, but can you briefly explain #2 & #3. Some of this is still new to a few here.

And with the recent bill signed, isn't registration and Purchase Permits done?

Patience with the new guys please....

#2. Since this one says that in order to get the exception, one must not be a resident of the state, I don't think that a person could avoid registration... just the OC in a PFZ. (MCL 750.234d)

MCL 28.422 License to purchase, carry, possess, or transport pistol; issuance; qualifications; applications; sale of pistol; exemptions; nonresidents; basic pistol safety brochure; forging application; implementation during business hours.
Sec. 2.
(8) An individual who is not a resident of this state is not required to obtain a license under this section if all of the following conditions apply:(a) The individual is licensed in his or her state of residence to purchase, carry, or transport a pistol.
(b) The individual is in possession of the license described in subdivision (a).
(c) The individual is the owner of the pistol he or she possesses, carries, or transports.
(d) The individual possesses the pistol for a lawful purpose as that term is defined in section 231a of the Michigan penal code, 1931 PA 328, MCL 750.231a.
(e) The individual is in this state for a period of 180 days or less and does not intend to establish residency in this state.

#3 In order to get a CPL, Michigan requires that a person be 21 years old. Some states allow a person to get a license to carry a concealed weapon/firearm/etc at 18 years old. Although the resident 19-20 year old could not conceal, they would have a MCL 750.234d exception.

 

[budlight]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlX_733xVKs&feature=youtu.be

I went into the Oakland County Records Building to get fingerprinted for my out of state Maine CPL.

This will provide exemption from the Michigan gun free zones listed in MCL 750.234d, and MCL 750.237a.

I was denied entry to this public building because of a policy that contradicts Michigans preemption law MCL 123.1102.

The officers were polite and respectful to me while not honoring the law they said they were aware of, and breaking the oath they took to uphold the constitution, protecting it from those domestic enemies that are mentioned within that oath.

Just curious....how does someone get a Maine CPL. Even if it's a non-resident one I would think they would require someone to show up in person. Again I'm just curious how this works? Good luck, hopefully it works out.

 

[WilDChilD]

Which, if any of these is pertinent in this case ( stainless's getting one) ?

I tried looking up the thread but it was either locked or deleted because i can not find it. But ONE of the 3 might pertant as to why.

 

[WilDChilD]

Thats why we asked... But we need help understanding this. Myself included. I dont mind reading and look at 750.234d again but am not sure of the logic. Maybe thats the problem.... Logicians did not write it ;-)

So what does this mean? He wanted an out-of-state permit to OC or transport a firearm in a PFZ instead of a MI CPL? Thats all? I dont understand if that is the case. Why not just get a Mi CPL?

To OC into a place that sells alcohol or anywhere else restricted by 750.234.

 

[Hevymetal]

Just curious....how does someone get a Maine CPL. Even if it's a non-resident one I would think they would require someone to show up in person. Again I'm just curious how this works? Good luck, hopefully it works out.

Some states (Florida and others) allow for the CPL application to be done entirely through the mail. Especially the non-resident permits.

 

[Venator]

Venator first of all i'm not trying to be a ass but where did you come up with this info i'd like to look at it
i see that 750.234d says
Sec. 234d.
(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:
(2) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon.

a person lic by another state but we don't accept a NON RESIDENT permit from any state so how does a permit that we don't even accept give you power to carry if you were to say a resident permit i would agree

You could not conceal carry with it as defined by statue, but it would be good to be able to Open carry in those places in 750.234d which has not been clarified by any recent statute. Therefore the plain language states a CPL from out of state exempts you from possession in those places listed in .234d.

 

[DrTodd]

You could not conceal carry with it as defined by statue, but it would be good to be able to Open carry in those places in 750.234d which has not been clarified by any recent statute. Therefore the plain language states a CPL from out of state exempts you from possession in those places listed in .234d.

This is correct; the plain language of the laws in question clearly state the difference between the law regarding cc and the law regarding mere possession (oc).

 

[Yance]

Can someone explain this? PM me or here? Or point me somewhere else to read up.

How does this permit provide exemption and is it only certain state CPLs? I current have my Mi CPL.

I'll break it down the best I can:

MCL 750.227 is the law that concerns carrying a CONCEALED weapon as well as possession in a vehicle.


750.231a Exceptions to MCL 750.227(2); definitions.
Sec. 231a.

(1) Subsection (2) of section 227 does not apply to any of the following:

(a) To a person holding a valid license to carry a pistol concealed upon his or her person issued by his or her state of residence except where the pistol is carried in nonconformance with a restriction appearing on the license.



MCL 750.234d

(1) Except as provided in subsection (2), a person shall not possess a firearm on the premises of any of the following:


(a) A depository financial institution or a subsidiary or affiliate of a depository financial institution.

(b) A church or other house of religious worship.

(c) A court.

(d) A theatre.

(e) A sports arena.

(f) A day care center.

(g) A hospital.

(h) An establishment licensed under the Michigan liquor control act, Act No. 8 of the Public Acts of the Extra Session of 1933, being sections 436.1 to 436.58 of the Michigan Compiled Laws.



2(c) A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon




So to break it down, 750.231a requires a license to carry a concealed weapon issued by this state or anothers state of residence, state of residence being the key issue here for carrying a CONCEALED weapon.

750.234d only specifies someone needing to be licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon. Now that simply says that if another state gives you a license to carry a concealed weapon you are exempt, even if its a non resident.

So, because 750.234d is regarding the POSSESSION of a firearm and not carrying a concealed firearm, if you have a license to carry a concealed weapon issued from another state you may POSSESS a firearm on the premises listed in 750.234d, possession including the open carry of a pistol.

Therefore if you are issued a license to carry a concealed weapon from another state you may possess that firearm on the premises of the locations listed in 750.234d without violating the law as long as you open carry.