Denied Access to Oakland Co. Records

[stainless1911]

Thanks.

I thought one of the main functions of us as individuals and of MOC in particular, was to educate not only the public, but LEO about laws related to carrying firearms.

from the MOC site: (snip)

The objectives of Michigan Open Carry are:​

To educate and desensitize the public and members of the law enforcement community about the legality of the open carry of a handgun in public.

 

[stainless1911]

I do believe that G9OS's point can be further described, at least by my version of the same point, by stating that you lack impulse control, as is evident by your posts, and the interactions you've had with government agents, including in this circumstance, because you as usual gave them information that was none of their business.

I again want it clear I say this not to be mean, but because I wish you'd be more careful in your actions.

I will try harder.

Bolded part: --> are you saying that because I told them about the law, or because I told them why I wanted the fingerprints?

If I just told them I wanted fingerprints, I suppose he would have then asked why I wanted them.

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

I will try harder.

Bolded part: --> are you saying that because I told them about the law, or because I told them why I wanted the fingerprints?

If I just told them I wanted fingerprints, I suppose he would have then asked why I wanted them.

Then you just say under MCL it is my right as a law abiding citizen to obtain a copy of them is it not?

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Then you just say under MCL it is my right as a law abiding citizen to obtain a copy of them is it not? If they give you crap, just smile and ask to speak with a supervisor. If you want to give them an explanation (which it is none of their damn business) you could said it for an pre-screening / background check. Which is the truth. If they go further simply say officer I was unaware an interigation was part of getting my finger prints taken , for which I am doing lawfully and will pay the fee for the public service your office is supposed to provide.

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

 

[scot623]

I would like to be contacted by someone who can explain to me why I should follow the rule at the records building and if I decide not to follow the rule, what law violation would I be charged with?

Not the friendliest email ever written. Hopefully they respond and don't just delete it. I've always made the opening email very friendly to encourage a response. Allow them the chance to say they made a mistake, or admit the sign is "correct". After they've admitted in the email the sign is "lawful" in their eyes(and you have written proof the higher ups are knowingly violating 123.1102), then ramp up the forcefulness. At least, that's how I'd do it.

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

Above +1

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

 

[Jared]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlX_733xVKs&feature=youtu.be

I went into the Oakland County Records Building to get fingerprinted for my out of state Maine CPL.

This will provide exemption from the Michigan gun free zones listed in MCL 750.234d, and MCL 750.237a.

I was denied entry to this public building because of a policy that contradicts Michigans preemption law MCL 123.1102.

The officers were polite and respectful to me while not honoring the law they said they were aware of, and breaking the oath they took to uphold the constitution, protecting it from those domestic enemies that are mentioned within that oath.

Why were you there?

Maine does not require fingerprints for their Permit to Carry Concealed Firearms.

They can only require fingerprints if they can't establish your identity.

 

[stainless1911]

Really? Thats good news then. I guess I misread something. Thank you. Just saved me 15 bucks and a return trip I didn't want to make.

 

[TheQ]

I hope this thread doesn't turn into another stainless bashing thread, but I fear it will. 300+ posts of stainless bashing. I wish there was a way to "ignore thread" here.

 

[Glock9mmOldStyle]

maybe it will get locked if it follows the path that most if his threads go - not bashing just an observation.

Giving up civil rights for security is a certain way to lose both!

 

[mirussell]

Michigan doesn't honor Non-Resident Permits/Licenses You must be a resident of the state they honor for your permit to be valid in Michigan. So the only good it will do you is if your leaving the state

 

[stainless1911]

Welcome

It doesn't cover concealment, whether on foot or in a vehicle, but the out of state permit does give exemption from the PFZ's, (pistol free zones). See cites earlier in the thread. If you can prove otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing your argument.

 

[mirussell]

It doesn't cover concealment, whether on foot or in a vehicle, but the out of state permit does give exemption from the PFZ's, (pistol free zones). See cites earlier in the thread. If you can prove otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing your argument.

i think your just wishing and going to get in more trouble michigan doesn't honor permits from other state if issued to nonresident so it's like the permit not there it wouldn't be worth the paper thats it's printed on unless you are in a state that honors non resident permits. Don't see how you can say it gives you exemptions when michigan doesn't honor it. Seems like common sense would say if it's not honored it can't be used. But if you have the money for the lawyer for when you get busted go for it but i work to hard for my money to chance it and lose all my rights

 

[SpringerXDacp]

i think your just wishing and going to get in more trouble michigan doesn't honor permits from other state if issued to nonresident so it's like the permit not there it wouldn't be worth the paper thats it's printed on unless you are in a state that honors non resident permits. Don't see how you can say it gives you exemptions when michigan doesn't honor it. Seems like common sense would say if it's not honored it can't be used. But if you have the money for the lawyer for when you get busted go for it but i work to hard for my money to chance it and lose all my rights

That (Blue) only pertains to CC on foot or in a vehicle. See MCL 750.227 and MCL 750.231a

IMO, MCL 750.234d & 750.237a are quite clear in this regard. Both exempt him for carry (OC) but not CC.

Hence, per Sections 234d & 237a: "A person licensed by this state or another state to carry a concealed weapon."

 

[StingMP9]

Isn't this Records building attached to the Jail? Where I was finger printed was connected to the Jail. You can see on a Google map that the Sheriff's Department Record Unit is right in front of the County Jail. I know these are connected. Doesn't that make it a sterile area?

 

[Venator]

Isn't this Records building attached to the Jail? Where I was finger printed was connected to the Jail. You can see on a Google map that the Sheriff's Department Record Unit is right in front of the County Jail. I know these are connected. Doesn't that make it a sterile area?

Not really. The public areas are not Sterile areas. Some Sheriffs try this, but really remember when we took guns in to sheriff's offices for pistol "Inspections"? The jail is a secured area and the other areas are not within the "Jail" proper.

 

[Venator]

i think your just wishing and going to get in more trouble michigan doesn't honor permits from other state if issued to nonresident so it's like the permit not there it wouldn't be worth the paper thats it's printed on unless you are in a state that honors non resident permits. Don't see how you can say it gives you exemptions when michigan doesn't honor it. Seems like common sense would say if it's not honored it can't be used. But if you have the money for the lawyer for when you get busted go for it but i work to hard for my money to chance it and lose all my rights

The others are correct an out os state CPL will work for 750.234d. It will not work for concealed carry. We and others have researched the hell out of this.

 

[scot623]

The others are correct an out os state CPL will work for 750.234d. It will not work for concealed carry. We and others have researched the hell out of this.

That may be true...but the OCSD and the Oakland County Prosecutor have made their distaste for stainless1911 plainly clear. They very well could arrest and charge him for that violation and let a jury decide. All the while costing him money he doesn't have. No one said being an activist is cheap.

 

[stainless1911]

email sent

Hello sir. I was recently visiting the Oakland County Records Building as I needed to get fingerprinted for an application that needed to be filed. I was stopped at the door by the deputy in the guard room. He claimed that no weapons were allowed in the building, referencing a sign on the door. I explained to him that the policy was unenforceable due to Michigans preemption law, MCL 123.1102, referenced below for clarity. He told me that if I had an issue, then I could speak with the deputy who followed me into the building upon seeing me exercising my legal right to openly carry into that facility.

The deputy escorted me outside, and wanted to discuss it with me. He had a great attitude and demeanor, polite, respectful and professional. But he also didn't know that the law has more force than a policy, and as a law enforcement officer, he is to follow and enforce the laws, even if they are not politically correct. He also seems to have forgotten his oath to the constitution. When in the oath the term "enemies, foreign and domestic" is used, the domestic part is not only referring to people who would fly airplanes full of people into our buildings, but it is also referring to people who would create and enforce policies contrary to our rights. Policies ranging from this one, to people like Carl Levin who intends to help ratify the UN gun ban. Now, the Gun ban may be out of your range, but this illegal policy is right in your department and should be clarified immediately.

This is not a secure area of the jail, thus becoming a gun free zone, in fact, until recently, Michigan residence were actually required to bring in handguns for a "safety" inspection. It is also not a part of the court, which would make it a gun free zone, the court is a quarter mile away.

I look forward to seeing this problem corrected, and would encourage you to assist us in dealing with some of the other departments who have shown to be lacking in knowledge of this particular area of the law.

123.1102 Regulation of pistols or other firearms.
Sec. 2.
A local unit of government shall not impose special taxation on, enact or enforce any ordinance or regulation pertaining to, or regulate in any other manner the ownership, registration, purchase, sale, transfer, transportation, or possession of pistols or other firearms, ammunition for pistols or other firearms, or components of pistols or other firearms, except as otherwise provided by federal law or a law of this state.


Sincerely, Neil Carpenter.

 

[scot623]

He also seems to have forgotten his oath to the constitution. When in the oath the term "enemies, foreign and domestic" is used, the domestic part is not only referring to people who would fly airplanes full of people into our buildings, but it is also referring to people who would create and enforce policies contrary to our rights. Policies ranging from this one, to people like Carl Levin who intends to help ratify the UN gun ban. Now, the Gun ban may be out of your range, but this illegal policy is right in your department and should be clarified immediately.

Neil, what in the F is all this in your email for??!?! This is not pertinent to the issue. The more giberish you put in your emails, the more likely they are to be ignored. Carl Levin?!?! UN treaty?!?! Wtf. Stay on point. Geesh.