Why do CC people feel compelled to "show" their weapons?

[solus]

i know of several members of who i have personally met with to OC'd who gained sufficient confidence to carry on OC'g on their own.

sometimes just takes being around someone to see there isn't going to be a big deal made of it.

only had one bloke point at his pocket to show me where his firearm was located.

ipse

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Yea there were a few times the Sarge and I actually provided cover to any observing eyes when others took their weapons out to show others at the booth....it was our moment.

There is truth in the decoder ring comment and camaraderie aspect.

Yet some of these would then lecture about how bad OC is after they just friggin displayed their weapon....:banghead:

 

[fire suppressor]

Yea there were a few times the Sarge and I actually provided cover to any observing eyes when others took their weapons out to show others at the booth....it was our moment.

There is truth in the decoder ring comment and camaraderie aspect.

Yet some of these would then lecture about how bad OC is after they just friggin displayed their weapon....:banghead:

You should have yelled "Brandishing!" just to see if they even understood that

 

[Jeff Hayes]

Yea there were a few times the Sarge and I actually provided cover to any observing eyes when others took their weapons out to show others at the booth....it was our moment.

There is truth in the decoder ring comment and camaraderie aspect.

Yet some of these would then lecture about how bad OC is after they just friggin displayed their weapon....:banghead:

+ 1 it always amazes me too.

 

[davidmcbeth]

Yea there were a few times the Sarge and I actually provided cover to any observing eyes when others took their weapons out to show others at the booth....it was our moment.

There is truth in the decoder ring comment and camaraderie aspect.

Yet some of these would then lecture about how bad OC is after they just friggin displayed their weapon....:banghead:

Do you retort: well, if its soooo bad I wonder why I am still alive...

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Do you retort: well, if its soooo bad I wonder why I am still alive...

John and I had some success using lines very similar to that. Also pointing out that FBI statistics and historical evidence proves the theory of OC as dangerous/bad. Several changed their minds, including one older lady who was anti gun yet talked to us and thanked us for changing her perspective. The best thing to destroy bigotry is association and witnessing that what you fear isn't evil.

 

[FTG-05]

For the same reason some CCers are so adamant about telling a LEO they are armed during a simple traffic stop when not required by law: It's to show how "speshul" they are.

 

[deanf]

What did Ronald Reagan say? Never speak ill of another Republican . . . ?

 

[utbagpiper]

What did Ronald Reagan say? Never speak ill of another Republican . . . ?

+1.

The Democrats have long had their version of this. "NO enemies to the left."

Turns out the Democrats/liberals are MUCH better at abiding that than are conservatives/Republicans/libertarians. Watch interviews with Democrats carefully. The media is their lapdogs, but even during debates with those who will bring it up, Democrats almost never criticize each other. Heck, a moderate democrat is loathe to even cast aspersions on Lenin or Stalin themselves. Notice the difference between a Democrat caught with his pants down and Republican in the same compromising situation. Notice the difference in tone and tenor between GOP presidential debates and the Democrat debates. Again, the media certainly plays a role. But a lot of it is liberals being herd animals who just don't criticize each other.

We gun owners need to do better at that, I think. We are so quick to throw others under the bus as stupid, lazy, ignorant, careless, anything to make clear that we are better than they. Our neighbors don't need to fear us, we'd never have an ND. We'd never forget and leave our guns in a public restroom stall. We know the laws, we never forget we have our guns, we would never accidentally carry up to an airport security checkpoint, or into a location where guns are banned.

Don't get me wrong, safety must be highest priority. Situational awareness and remembering we have our gun, and compliance with laws must be a very close second. But rather than defending our own when innocent mistakes that don't hurt anyone happen, we are so quick to throw them to the wolves.

So too with some here regarding the supposed divide between OCers and CCers. A couple of internet forums for CC are hostile to OC and folks get a burr under their saddle about all CCers. A few of our CCing brethren trust an OCer to know they are carrying, and some among us must attach the worst of motives.

Let me again praise those who have had experiences with CCers revealing they're carrying and giving some benefit of the doubt rather than condemning.

Check the news, popular entertainment, and the halls of political power. We've got plenty of enemies. We don't need to make more of those who are really our allies.

"No enemies to the left."

"No enemies who peacefully carry firearms for self defense."

Here, mostly among ourselves, let's debate, argue, and even insult a little if we must. Let's be very careful about what we portray to the outside world.

Charles

 

[Geerolla]

For the same reason some CCers are so adamant about telling a LEO they are armed during a simple traffic stop when not required by law: It's to show how "speshul" they are.

I will never understand this one. It accomplishes nothing, especially since the officer likely already assumes they're carrying because they possess a CPL.


Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

 

[davidmcbeth]

For the same reason some CCers are so adamant about telling a LEO they are armed during a simple traffic stop when not required by law: It's to show how "speshul" they are.

When two FBI agents asked me if I was armed ... my response of "You'll find out.." had one in stitches and the other growling at me.

 

[arentol]

The order of gun law knowledge tends to go about like this:

Just about everything: OC'ers
Quite a bit: Felon's
Fair amount: LEO's and CC'ers
Enough to be dangerous: Hunters and average gun owner.
Next to Nothing: Average non-gun owner and pretty criminal.
Actual negative gun law knowledge: Politicians and lobbyists.

Laughs aside, my point is that while CC'ers do tend to be better educated on gun laws than most, the average still doesn't hold a candle to most OC'ers and so some of them make basic mistakes like showing an otherwise concealed gun to others in public just because they think the person will "understand", not realizing that it could (shouldn't, but could) get them arrested.

Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk

 

[willy1094]

I guess I don't understand the problem. Don't we approach people that OC and strike up a conversation based on carrying? Why does just uncovering the gun scare so many. I could have misread something, and if you all are saying it is scary when someone removes the firearm from the holster, I understand that. I have flat out told people not to remove their firearm, I don't need to see it.

I'm with those that feel like it is just someone that is attempting to show support for carry in general. I don't feel like there is any reason to belittle someone that attempting to reach out to someone else that carries. I also feel like it is detrimental to talk down to anyone that may not be aware of all the ins and outs of laws so long as they are receptive to information that you give them. Your attitude and assumptions may very well sway the way the person feels when then had no prior opinion. It seems to me, we should but nudging them in the right direction. That may just be me though

 

[decklin]

I guess I don't understand the problem. Don't we approach people that OC and strike up a conversation based on carrying? Why does just uncovering the gun scare so many. I could have misread something, and if you all are saying it is scary when someone removes the firearm from the holster, I understand that. I have flat out told people not to remove their firearm, I don't need to see it.

I'm with those that feel like it is just someone that is attempting to show support for carry in general. I don't feel like there is any reason to belittle someone that attempting to reach out to someone else that carries. I also feel like it is detrimental to talk down to anyone that may not be aware of all the ins and outs of laws so long as they are receptive to information that you give them. Your attitude and assumptions may very well sway the way the person feels when then had no prior opinion. It seems to me, we should but nudging them in the right direction. That may just be me though

For me it has more to do with the CC only crowd constantly bashing OC. Then when they do see us they want to be part of the group.
As I stated earlier, and it went over one posters head, every single cc'er that has approached has shown me what they're carrying.

 

[utbagpiper]

For me it has more to do with the CC only crowd constantly bashing OC.

How many CCers actually bash OC? You do realize how many here choose to CC part of the time don't you?

Then when they do see us they want to be part of the group.

So are we more interesting in recruiting additional allies, or in running off heretics for lack of perfection?

We've got plenty of enemies who really hate everything about guns and most things about gun owners. Don't see much reason to make an enemy of a guy who CCs and "wants to be part of the group".

As I stated earlier, and it went over one posters head, every single cc'er that has approached has shown me what they're carrying.

What percentage of CCers never approached you at all? I suspect you are dealing with a tiny percentage of CCers and yet making very negative judgments about the much larger group. There is a word that describes that kind of small minded behavior, but it isn't a very polite word so I won't use it here because we don't need to be making enemies out of our own. We need to be finding allies.

If 1% or 10% or even 50% of CCers hate OC, but then want to be part of the group of OCers, I won't disparage the other 50 to 99% of CCers and I'll do my level best to win over whatever percentage isn't as supportive of OC as I'd like them to be. That is a much shorter walk for them than for the gun grabbers.

Back to the purpose of this site, how do we go about promoting OC to those who approach us about our OC'd gun?

And is any reason to be less interested in winning over the CCer (who may show us his gun) than there is in winning over the non-carrier?

Charles

 

[decklin]

How many CCers actually bash OC? You do realize how many here choose to CC part of the time don't you?



So are we more interesting in recruiting additional allies, or in running off heretics for lack of perfection?

We've got plenty of enemies who really hate everything about guns and most things about gun owners. Don't see much reason to make an enemy of a guy who CCs and "wants to be part of the group".



What percentage of CCers never approached you at all? I suspect you are dealing with a tiny percentage of CCers and yet making very negative judgments about the much larger group. There is a word that describes that kind of small minded behavior, but it isn't a very polite word so I won't use it here because we don't need to be making enemies out of our own. We need to be finding allies.

If 1% or 10% or even 50% of CCers hate OC, but then want to be part of the group of OCers, I won't disparage the other 50 to 99% of CCers and I'll do my level best to win over whatever percentage isn't as supportive of OC as I'd like them to be. That is a much shorter walk for them than for the gun grabbers.

Back to the purpose of this site, how do we go about promoting OC to those who approach us about our OC'd gun?

And is any reason to be less interested in winning over the CCer (who may show us his gun) than there is in winning over the non-carrier?

Charles

Uh-huh. Do you spend any time on other forums? Maybe you should. I think you'd be surprised at how a lot of cc'ers view us.
Get over yourself. Just because you've never encountered a negative cc'er doesn't mean they don't exist.
Also, if you're not going to bother applying some reading comprehension then please don't reply. I don't like to waste my time explaining the same thing over and over. You're still trying to understand my first post and I don't have the desire to educate you.

 

[willy1094]

I just kind of doubt that someone that is totally against open carry is going to make an effort to approach you and then show you that they are carrying also. That doesn't mean that they won't start spouting off 'stuff they heard' or read on those same sites you read, but my bet is that they will at least listen to what you are saying. They may still disagree with you at the end of the conversation, but you never know. My point is that you have two options. You can show your not so sunny side and cement their feeling/opinion of open carriers or you can be informative/courteous no matter what they say and possibly change their mind or at least plant a seed. Only one of these two options has any chance of a positive outcome. Just saying....

 

[decklin]

I just kind of doubt that someone that is totally against open carry is going to make an effort to approach you and then show you that they are carrying also. That doesn't mean that they won't start spouting off 'stuff they heard' or read on those same sites you read, but my bet is that they will at least listen to what you are saying. They may still disagree with you at the end of the conversation, but you never know. My point is that you have two options. You can show your not so sunny side and cement their feeling/opinion of open carriers or you can be informative/courteous no matter what they say and possibly change their mind or at least plant a seed. Only one of these two options has any chance of a positive outcome. Just saying....

Please point out where anybody is advocating being rude.

 

[willy1094]

I never accused anyone of being rude. My post was how I feel anyone should handle/reply to someone in this situation and how the shouldn't. I could say that some of the posts COULD lead one to BELIEVE there would be the POSSIBILITY of a rude or sarcastic reaction to a CC'er showing their weapons to an OC'er.

 

[utbagpiper]

Uh-huh. Do you spend any time on other forums? Maybe you should. I think you'd be surprised at how a lot of cc'ers view us.

I spend time on UtahConcealedCarry.com .

Nary a negative word about OC. In fact, a lot of folks on that forum OC as their default carry method.

Maybe folks in other States are less open minded that we here in Utah. (Oh the rich irony of that possibly being true.)

Get over yourself. Just because you've never encountered a negative cc'er doesn't mean they don't exist.
Also, if you're not going to bother applying some reading comprehension then please don't reply. I don't like to waste my time explaining the same thing over and over. You're still trying to understand my first post and I don't have the desire to educate you.

Maybe it is you who should try getting over yourself and applying reading comprehension. You said that 100% of those CCers who approached you exposed their firearms to you. My question is what percentage of CCers actually approach you? Properly carried, a concealed gun is supposed to be, concealed, and not all that easy to notice. How many CCers did you never ID as carrying? How many never approached you at all?

To put forth a simple analogy, while 100% of gun murders are violent crimes, (according to this article, at least) only 8% of violent crimes involve the use of a firearm.

As another example, closer to your experience, the victim of a violent crime may find herself carrying some negative emotions toward those who are part of the same demographic as the criminal: young men, one ethnicity or another, etc. After all, "100%" of the violent criminals who assaulted her belonged to that demographic. Of course, something approaching 0% of the members of that demographic group ever hurt her or would ever hurt her.

I think a lot of times, people find what they are looking for. And some seem to be looking for people to take offense to them OCing. I think it is more productive to look for and build on commonality among gun owners. We've got plenty of real enemies; people who really want to take our guns, who really want to make it impossible for us to legally carry a gun in our day-to-day lives for self defense. The vast majority of CCers (and hunters, collectors, sport shooters, and other gun owners) are not our enemies.

Charles