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Weapons were drawn tonight! Serious situation ends well.

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Howdy Folks!
While I cannot elaborate on details right now, we arrested a fugitive last night and transported her to jail without incident.

Tonight my team went into a situation where an unknown number of people were in our target location, and in addition, at least another 8 to 10 were on the back part of the property. We were backed up by local sheriff's deputies. We did not know if weapons were at the location, or whether we might face armed resistence. We drew our weapons and searched the building. We found our man, and took him into custody.

At this time, I am coming down off an adrenaline buzz and figure I need time to mellow out.

After I left off another agent, I went to get gas for my Jeep. I was open carrying, and I was in Denver. I really didn't much care whether they might have an issue with it or not. I just wanted to gas up and get myself home.

All in all, it was a terrific two nights, and I love my gig!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Are you not subject to the Denver ordinances?

Howdy Grapeshot!
That would be highly debatable, given how the law is written.

DRMC 38-117(f)(2) which reads "while traveling into or through the city to or from another jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in the city or the other jurisdiction" is in conflict with state law and is preempted by state law.

That verbage is from the Meyer's decision that exempted Denver from the State's preemption language, denying open carry under most circumstances.
Since I was coming out of another jurisdiction where open carry is legal, and travelling to another jurisdiction where it is also legal, but forced to stop for fuel in Denver, I made a stop within the city/county jurisdiction for fuel. Added to that, I was on private property while doing so. Total number of stops while travelling into Denver's jurisdiction was precisely one. Got fuel, went inside, used the facilities, bought something to eat, left Denver's jurisdiction.

If some officer was having a bad day, or wanted to make a fuss about it, yeah, they could have tried me on for size.

Don't think it would pan out well for such officer having done so, though.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Howdy Grapeshot!
That would be highly debatable, given how the law is written.

DRMC 38-117(f)(2) which reads "while traveling into or through the city to or from another jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in the city or the other jurisdiction" is in conflict with state law and is preempted by state law.

That verbage is from the Meyer's decision that exempted Denver from the State's preemption language, denying open carry under most circumstances.
Since I was coming out of another jurisdiction where open carry is legal, and travelling to another jurisdiction where it is also legal, but forced to stop for fuel in Denver, I made a stop within the city/county jurisdiction for fuel. Added to that, I was on private property while doing so. Total number of stops while travelling into Denver's jurisdiction was precisely one. Got fuel, went inside, used the facilities, bought something to eat, left Denver's jurisdiction.

If some officer was having a bad day, or wanted to make a fuss about it, yeah, they could have tried me on for size.

Don't think it would pan out well for such officer having done so, though.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

Answer is in the fine points then. I appreciate it.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Glad everything went out well.

Stay safe Mel.

Howdy GT!
I'll admit to being a bit stiff and sore this morning. It's been awhile since I did a 'low crawl' flat on my belly to reach a vantage point for surveillance.

Before the team assembled, I open carried in Golden, i.e. Walmart and Safeway, and nobody much paid any mind.
The best metal detector store I know of in the whole state of Colorado is over in Golden, and I've carried in there many times with never any trouble at all.
Then again, I've bought some serious machines there, and they know me pretty good. I thought about stopping by, but never really got a chance.

Golden seems pretty darn accepting of OC.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

wmodavis

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 25, 2012
Messages
109
Location
CO
Glad it came out fine. Also glad you like your adrenaline boosting gig! And Thanks for posting your insight into that favorite of ours..... the preemption thing once again. Since they haven't favored the request to sticky it guess you'll have to keep it on the forefront.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Answer is in the fine points then. I appreciate it.

Howdy Grapeshot!
It was a great question, and one I do not take exception to.
I do, however, take my chances and open carry quite often while going about my normal day to day business.
I often travel into Denver territory from another jurisdiction, usually while on my way to another jurisdiction, because Denver is real big and tends to be this huge obstacle sitting right in the middle of places I'm trying to get! LOL!

Maybe I'm taking chances, I'll admit that freely enough. There may come a day when I am given trouble by some officer trying to enforce what is, by the verbage of the Meyers decision, a preempted activity. Then again, we have seem examples of carriers infringed while going about this perfectly legal activity in other jurisdictions which are actually preempted. (i.e. the Thornton theater carrier who got arrested).

My attitude is that I don't invest a great deal of time fretting about what is possible to go wrong, I figure I'll open carry, and cross those bridges when (and if) the time comes. Do I go out of my way to bring about a situation whereby such bridge needs crossing? Perhaps. Do I adhere to the letter of the law? I believe so. Do I need a hassle of that magnitude? Heavens no. Do I shrink from the possibility that it could come along one of these fine days? No. I won't be cowed, won't be denied my lawful right, and won't be intimidated by an officer who abuses my right.

I ain't looking to be a test case, but I won't be spending much energy worrying about it either.

Thanks for the question. I am certain others might be curious about the same thing and am glad for the opportunity to speak about it so others can know what the decision was in Meyers. Yeah, they're exempt from most of the state's preemption law; but there are exceptions to their exceptions. They ain't got carte blanche to completely infringe the rights of a citizen as they'd hoped.

And depending on the decision in the case now before the 10th, they may discover they have even less authority than they hoped to impose.
That decision is far overdue.

Have a terrific open carry day!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
M-Taliesin - From your history, I was confident that you knew something which I did not and that exception is of major import for those traveling through.

One of my habits is to try and imagine what might go wrong and to come up with a solution beforehand. I think you probably do that much more than you realize - suspect it is an automated function. Was offered a job similar to your vocation many years ago - couldn't accept it as I was a single parent raising two minor children. Believe it would have been rewarding on several levels though.

My son just brought back two from another state. Much better rules/guidelines now than I worked for the same agency. What really blew me away though was that they had use of the governor's plane.
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
M-Taliesin - From your history, I was confident that you knew something which I did not and that exception is of major import for those traveling through.

Howdy Pardner!
I can't tell you how important it is to know the law, especially in light of recent events. Even if a citizen is merely visiting our state right now, we have been witness to a number of violations of civil liberties and constitutional violations. There has been a spate of citizens being wrongly charged for completely lawful activity, and there seems to be a jack-booted attitude in law enforcement that they are the masters and overlords rather than servants of the people.

That has got to change. For me, for visitors to my state, to my friends in the OC community and anybody who might be swept up for simply exercising their rights under our Constitution of the United States, and the Constitution of the State of Colorado.

This is more than a matter of convenience, and more than a matter of whether or not we end up with an arrest record. It is a matter of governments attempting a power grab that is contrary to the spirit and purpose of our laws.

I am planning to suggest a series of steps that may be taken to restrain the police departments in our state from further violations of this sort.
And I believe the time to quash this type of infringement is now. The message must be pounded home hard and with out ambiguity;
You work for us.... the people are still in charge.

Thats the stuff of another post. I will need to work through some thoughts before I can articulate them with clarity.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
One of my habits is to try and imagine what might go wrong and to come up with a solution beforehand. I think you probably do that much more than you realize - suspect it is an automated function. Was offered a job similar to your vocation many years ago - couldn't accept it as I was a single parent raising two minor children. Believe it would have been rewarding on several levels though.

Howdy Pardner!
Before we make an apprehension, we consider our plan well ahead of time. Where are the windows? What doors exist? How many guys are we going to need? Do we need local LEO backup? And a whole lot of other logistical concerns.

In the long run, we do a whole lot more planning than folks see on television. We may spend hours of surveillance to ensure we know what to anticipate when we make our move. But no matter how well you plan, always anticipate an encounter with the unexpected. It usually turns up at some point during an op.

But one thing I can tell you is.... this is an addictive line of endeavor. I think Hemingway said it best:
"There is nothing like the hunting of man. And those who have hunted armed men long enough, and liked it, never care for anything else!"

It ain't for everybody, but I sure do love it. I mean... I really would rather do this type work than sit in a cubicle answering phones.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Im da daoug da beeg bad daoug .. da bauni huntaaaaaaa...

=p

(Don't beat me up MT)

--Rob

Howdy Pard!
Just a correction here....
We are professionals, and our team is all pro. You couldn't ask for a better team.
Unlike people with TV shows, we set out to do stuff right!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Bellum_Intus

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
Howdy Pard!
Just a correction here....
We are professionals, and our team is all pro. You couldn't ask for a better team.
Unlike people with TV shows, we set out to do stuff right!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin

I know.. heh.. we've had this conversation :p

Hence the JAB at ya.. heh.. I do it cause I like ya..

--Rob
 
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M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
I know.. heh.. we've had this conversation :p

Hence the JAB at ya.. heh.. I do it cause I like ya..

--Rob

Howdy Amigo!
No trace of offense taken amigo! I know when my lariat is being tugged.
I just figured I'd throw back as good a jab as I got! LOL!

You know... I've always fancied becoming a ranger.
Don't know if they would even consider me, considering I was a much different man in days gone by.
There is a song that hits on that point: Tim McGraw "I'm better than I used to be!"
There's a whole long story behind all that, and I ain't going into it anytime soon.

Odd thing is, I had one guy who already is a ranger ask to join up with bounty hunting!
How off camber is that?

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
At least you get paid to be a bounty hunter :p..

the Colorado Rangers are 100% volunteer ..

--Rob

Howdy Pardner!
True enough, but sometimes it ain't about the money. I did a good deal of bounty hunting without being paid as I learned the craft.
Now I get paid. But in those early days, it was about doing something that gave back to the community.
Taking a fugitive off the streets is beneficial to the community, IMHO, and I didn't mind doing it 'gratis' while learning the ropes.

Then again, I am still learning the ropes. There are a whole lot of those ya know.

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 

Bellum_Intus

Regular Member
Joined
May 13, 2012
Messages
540
Location
Rush, Colorado
Howdy Pardner!
True enough, but sometimes it ain't about the money. I did a good deal of bounty hunting without being paid as I learned the craft.
Now I get paid. But in those early days, it was about doing something that gave back to the community.

There ya go... =)

--Rob
 

Saxxon

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2012
Messages
222
Location
Northglenn, Colorado
Denver has a ban on open carry, and a ban on concealed carry. Both are pre-empted by DENVER law if you have a valid CCW. Meaning, you can legally open carry in Denver if you have a CCW.

At least, that is how the law reads going over it with a professional recently. Looked that way to me too when he pointed it out.

The stickling point with Denver is they are violating the constitutional right of Coloradans with their open carry ban, their law makes the statute granted CCW a greater "right" than the constitutional one. Good arguement for Constitutional Carry, supported by the law, and by current LEO attitudes.

Of course, they may attempt to arrest & cite you anyway, a rash of unlawful arrests & detianments lately by police who don't know the law - which is a goo arguement to support statewide pre-emtpion because then there is one standard for all LEO in the state.
 
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M-Taliesin

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2011
Messages
1,504
Location
Aurora, Colorado
Denver has a ban on open carry, and a ban on concealed carry. Both are pre-empted by DENVER law if you have a valid CCW. Meaning, you can legally open carry in Denver if you have a CCW.

At least, that is how the law reads going over it with a professional recently. Looked that way to me too when he pointed it out.

The stickling point with Denver is they are violating the constitutional right of Coloradans with their open carry ban, their law makes the statute granted CCW a greater "right" than the constitutional one. Good arguement for Constitutional Carry, supported by the law, and by current LEO attitudes.

Of course, they may attempt to arrest & cite you anyway, a rash of unlawful arrests & detianments lately by police who don't know the law - which is a goo arguement to support statewide pre-emtpion because then there is one standard for all LEO in the state.

Howdy Saxxon!
I haven't seen anything in Colorado Revised Statutes or the Meyer's decision to indicate that anybody can open carry in Denver, whether or not they have a permit. Concealed carry is permitted, but only with a permit. Open carry is not allowed and is the reason why Denver is currently embroiled in a suit against Denver.
see:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/showthread.php?77035-Peterson-v-LaCabe-(Denver-CO)-MSJ-Filed
and:
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/s...rtinez-(10th-Circuit)-Official-Appeals-Thread

The whole crux of the case has to do with denial of the right of a person from another state who holds a non-resident Utah concealed carry permit while in Denver as Denver does not recognize a non-resident concealed carry permit. Because Denver also forbids open carry, the suit basically seems to claim that the citizen's right to carry a sidearm for lawful self defense has been completely infringed.

If you know of something that allows open carry for those who have a CCW permit in Denver, I'd really like to see a citation for that.
It is the sort of information that we should all know about. I don't think there is anything to indicate OC is allowed in Denver under any circumstance, but would take great delight in learning I may be mistaken!

Blessings,
M-Taliesin
 
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