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OT: shariah in Leesburg today

user

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Well, I don't live in the Town of Leesburg, or Loudoun County; however, I'll state for the record that I don't care. There is no such thing as Shariah "law" in the United States. And it's become a bit of a pet peeve that the news faces keep saying that Shariah is "Islamic law", which is hogwash.

Islamic law is contained within the books of Leviticus, Exodus, Numbers, and Deuteronomy. Most folks don't know that the Kor'an is basically a commentary on the Bible (Old and New testaments - it was written about three hundred years after the Canon was complete, and Mohammed had been a student of Christianity in Europe before he became disgusted and took "The Book" to "the other sons of Abraham"). The Kor'an incorporates the Bible by reference, and makes the law of the OT the law for Muslims.

Shariah, on the other hand, is Arab tribal custom. It is neither "law", nor "Islamic", except that within the kind of seminomadic patriarchal tribes of the region, most of the folks are "Muslim" (sort of the way most folks here are "Christian"), and whatever Big Daddy in the clan says, is "law". You try cutting off someone's hand here because they're guilty of theft, and the thief will not be charged with any crime, and the people who cut off the hand will go to jail for assault, battery, mayhem (the common law crime of severing any body part of another person) and/or malicious wounding, and conspiracy and/or attempt to commit all of the above.

I wonder what all those folks in England are so worked up about?
 

user

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First, I have consumed no unlawfully intoxicating substance for over thirty years. The S.O.L. was up on all that stuff long before my certificate of good character was filed with the Virginia Supreme Court. ("If you can remember 1968, you weren't there.")

Saying that because predominantly Islamic countries have a legal system based on traditional Arab culture (which existed long before, like several thousand years, before Islam was invented) that the legal system is Islamic is like saying that the Constitution of the United States is "Christian law". It happens that many of the people who participated in the drafting would have called themselves, "Christians", but that don't make the Constitution "Christian law". That system they're calling, "Shariah", was first codified during the reign of Hammurabi, and it was "common law" way before that. We're talking five to seven thousand years before the invention of Islam.

But my point wasn't about the abstractions of distinctions that can be drawn between the base culture of a people and the more recent religious overlays adopting and reinforcing that culture; it was about the irrelevance of Shariah to the legal systems of the United States. We define crimes and torts without regard to how traditional Arabic cultures would have defined them, and it don't make a spit's worth of difference in the U.S. what Hammurabi OR Mohammed (or Moses; or His Holiness, the Supreme Holy Father, Pope Sixtus IV, for that matter - that wonderful guy who brought you The Holy Inquisition) would have done to a thief. In the U.S., Shariah represents a purely personal system of thought about what the law ought to be, and is therefore irrelevant to the systems of law and laws presently in effect.

Here's another point about the distinction between Shariah and Islam: no one can claim to be exercising "religious freedom" by acting on the basis of traditional Arab culture which pre-dated Islam by thousands of years. You can't bring aspects of your native culture to the United States that are inconsistent with U.S. law and the law of the state in which you settle down, and expect to be given diplomatic extraterritorial rights in the exercise of your cultural norms. Stone your daughter for sleeping with her boyfriend and you go to prison, 'cause it ain't about the free exercise of religion in the slightest.
 

jbone

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User, Wow!
That’s some defense to Shariah. I don’t know whether you’re a scholar in Islamic studies, a proponent of the introduction and takeover of, or, if you simply cut and pasted. But what I do know is that not caring fits right in to the plans of the liberals granting what you say cannot happen.

I’m no scholar, I’m total against Shariah, and here’s a few cut and pastes:


http://shariahthethreat.org/a-short-course-1-what-is-shariah/

“Shariah commands both Islamic terrorism and pre-violent, “civilizational jihad” or “stealth jihad,” depending on necessity and circumstances. Those who work to insinuate shariah into the United States are conspiring to subvert and replace the Constitution, because under shariah, freedom of religion and other civil liberties enshrined in the Constitution – and the very concept of man-made law – are incompatible with Islam.
Any system of man-made law is considered illicit under shariah, where Allah and only Allah has provided the law. This is not a radical concept in Islam, but a fundamental tenet of the faith”

The Wikipedia thing says; “Sharīah is the code of conduct or religious law of Islam”

See Shariah in the UK. http://blog.beliefnet.com/news/2011...muslim-shariah-law-zones-go-up-in-england.php

It's happening and I think you know it user, just be honest!
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/11/de_facto_shariah_law_in_americ.html

I find more idea and fact pointing to your bias acceptance. Those with thoughts as you in the UK allowed the very thing they thought could not happen, or did they allowed it, and you say could not happen here. I find your words deceptive and alarmingly dangerous to our future. Do you wish this, but cover its arrival with dismissal?
 
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thebigsd

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I don't see User defending Shariah law. He is simply stating what Shariah actually is as opposed to what most Americans percieve it to be. When it comes to User, I trust his authority when it comes to the law opposed to your reference to Wikipedia.
 

Tony4310

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Glad I don';t live in Virginia is that is how people see sharia! I'll stay in the Midwest where we know what sharia is and is not. It's not welcome here.
 

jbone

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I don't see User defending Shariah law. He is simply stating what Shariah actually is as opposed to what most Americans percieve it to be. When it comes to User, I trust his authority when it comes to the law opposed to your reference to Wikipedia.
He is too, and no he's not, look I posted three references, he posted zero, and you oppose the more liberal reference I used?

user may very well be the authority you suggest, but never-the-less he communicates a position, a stance on how he perceives Shariah. I've done the same with references; what’s your position, if you care to share. A position is something we will all be faced with taking on concering this subject sooner or later, but, I don't care is a pathway to Shariah in the U.S.
 

user

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Well, JBone and Tony are entitled to their opinions. I'm not sure why either of them thinks that Shariah is legally significant in the U.S., myself. Crime is crime, and if a defendant claims justification on the basis of Shariah, well, he's probably leaving though the side door. Now, I've only been practicing law a little over twenty years, myself, and I'm sure they've both got more experience with legal systems than I do, and I respect their opinion.

On the other hand, by reacting to what they see as a negative, they give it credibility and significance that it would not have, otherwise. A reaction to evil is the realization of that evil.

"Shariah is legally irrelevant" is a different statement from "I don't care", however. Moslems make up a tiny percentage of the population. I see the bigger threat coming from states like Maryland, New Jersey, New York, Massachussetts, Illinois, California, and Hawaii, in which the dominant culture feels a strong need to disarm the citizenry (Roman Catholics occupy six of the nine seats on the U.S. Sup. Ct., and Islam has none.).
 

beebobby

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Playing the sharia card is a fear mongering tactic used to try and scare uninformed voters into coming out and participating. There is no and will never be sharia law in the US.
 

cyras21

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Stating that Shariah "law" is irrelevant and non-existent in the US is naive. I remember reading a case a few months back about a Federal Judge allowing Shariah "law" within the court. A short google search and TWO other issues were found....

1st

Sharia Law in the United States
The U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of Missouri, Richard Callahan, assured Muslims on April 29th that “the Obama Administration would likely step in on behalf of Sharia law should any state try to ban it.” This may be of interest because various laws are pending in many states to prohibit or limit the application of Sharia Law in their courts.

http://pajamasmedia.com/tatler/2011/04/30/sharia-law-in-the-united-states/

2nd
Shariah law is already here: Judge allows spousal rape on Islamic grounds...The American judge dismissed the woman's charges of sexual assault and criminal sexual conduct on the grounds that her husband should not be punished for spousal rape because Islam permits it.

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/fischer/100725
 

Tawnos

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Playing the sharia card is a fear mongering tactic used to try and scare uninformed voters into coming out and participating. There is no and will never be sharia law in the US.
Unless the Christians impose it, with anti-women, anti-gay, anti-other religious votes.
 

jbone

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"fear mongering" I never saw the likes of such tactics until the Obama administration and distasteful liberal 111[SUP]th[/SUP] turned it into a daily practice.
 

okboomer

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jbone, please change your icon, it gives me the willies every time I see your posts ... it is terrorizing me :p
 

jbone

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jbone, please change your icon, it gives me the willies every time I see your posts ... it is terrorizing me :p
I hear yah! It's like that chain mail were you stare at something and then that crazy thing from the movie the Ring jumps out. Terrorizing is a good association of picture to person. Just like when I see Pelosi my brain associates with Water Moccasin.

 

jbone

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"Death Panels"
“Harry Reid Kicks The Fear Mongering Up A Couple Hundred Notches: No Debt Deal Means “No Schools For Our Children”

“Pelosi Not Done Fear Mongering: Tells Seniors They Can “Kiss Their Medicare Good-Bye”


This Chupacabra and Water Moccasin do it while speaking for and to the American people from elected positions, as for Palin she did it from face book as a non-politician. You compare apples and oranges. I know I only give you recent examples but easy searches reveal tons of such BS, and Anti America rhetoric from these trash talkers on the left.


Should you ask, I will agree that both party's love doing it, both no party masters the deceit and usse's it for such dispecible reason and gain as do the liberal/socialists . IMO.
 
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OldCurlyWolf

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The recommendation by McCain would be enough to make me vote for the other candidate, if I were a Virginia Republican.:mad:
 
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