Damiansar-15
Regular Member
Does anyone have any Open Carry case references or case law relating to OC and Reasonable Articulate Suspicion? I am specifically interested in Kansas examples, but any Federal cases would also be interesting.
Issue:
I have and will open carrying in Wichita, Kansas and I have a debate with my law enforcement brother on whether or not LEOs have the right to perform a Terry Stop and demand ID on OC citizens with just suspicion that their firearm may be loaded. All forms of OC is legal in Kansas, but UNLOADED OC is only legal in Wichita due to local ordinances.
The city attorney recently had a training session for WPD and mentioned that RAS was needed for officers to stop OC citizens. Since, LOADED open carry is illegal, officers who see OC citizens carry firearms would have the right to stop, question, check ID and check the firearm to see if it is unloaded only. Once the check has occurred, the LEO would not have RAS to further detain/check on citizen. Her position was that it is reasonable to assume that the firearm is loaded and this would be committing a crime.
This point of view did not make sense to me, because if KS LEOs have to check to see if I am unloaded, then they don’t know or should not suspect that I am loaded and breaking the ordinance. Of course, this changes if they get a call from a citizen who reports that someone was loading pistol, brandishing it, etc… Wichita does not have ordinances, like in California, which allow LEOs to specifically check for unloaded status.
My point of view is that OC is legal, and unless WPD have RAS, they should not have the ability to stop me, even if it is to check to see that my weapon is unloaded.
This is an important issue, because I believe WPD is incorrectly getting trained and will be violating citizens’ 4th Amendment rights by hassling them for ID and detaining them for no reason…
Issue:
I have and will open carrying in Wichita, Kansas and I have a debate with my law enforcement brother on whether or not LEOs have the right to perform a Terry Stop and demand ID on OC citizens with just suspicion that their firearm may be loaded. All forms of OC is legal in Kansas, but UNLOADED OC is only legal in Wichita due to local ordinances.
The city attorney recently had a training session for WPD and mentioned that RAS was needed for officers to stop OC citizens. Since, LOADED open carry is illegal, officers who see OC citizens carry firearms would have the right to stop, question, check ID and check the firearm to see if it is unloaded only. Once the check has occurred, the LEO would not have RAS to further detain/check on citizen. Her position was that it is reasonable to assume that the firearm is loaded and this would be committing a crime.
This point of view did not make sense to me, because if KS LEOs have to check to see if I am unloaded, then they don’t know or should not suspect that I am loaded and breaking the ordinance. Of course, this changes if they get a call from a citizen who reports that someone was loading pistol, brandishing it, etc… Wichita does not have ordinances, like in California, which allow LEOs to specifically check for unloaded status.
My point of view is that OC is legal, and unless WPD have RAS, they should not have the ability to stop me, even if it is to check to see that my weapon is unloaded.
This is an important issue, because I believe WPD is incorrectly getting trained and will be violating citizens’ 4th Amendment rights by hassling them for ID and detaining them for no reason…