Kadmos,
To amplify the slogan---- IF one cannot lawfully exercise a right, they don't have the right! This is the context of the slogan. MANY have had legal challenges over the years in the exercise of a Right and the Courts (gradually) have begun to recognize these rights and are holding those who would violate these right to account!
I agree with you there. But cannot is different than have to. Just because you aren't using the right currently, doesn't mean you've lost it in the future. The "slogan" as it was, simply isn't accurate
Wstar425 said:
First, welcome to the board. I think you will find that if you are civil and have legitimate questions, most if not all here, can respond in kind. I need some clarification. Are you asking why open carry instead of concealed, or are you asking why open carry instead of not carrying at all?
Thanks for the welcome. Actually, when I started this I was asking "Why open carry at all?" I didn't mean it so much as how it related or didn't to concealed carry, but just why.
I guess I should be a bit more clear why I came here. Youtube recommended a video to me which showed a fairly negative reaction from law enforcement to this particular citizens open carry adventure. Because I watched it, they recommended several more. Pretty much all in that same vein. You probably know the type, someone either in a good sized city or suburbia, pretty much 100% white males (I've got nothing against white males, just saying what is), walking around an area where it's obviously not usual.
They seem like they want attention, and then they get attention. Then they play the game of pretending it's not unusual, refusing to show id, repeating "am I being detained?" And I'm thinking "a cop just pulled a gun on you, took away your gun...yeah, it's a safe bet that you are in fact being detained".
Frankly, I got annoyed. I made a couple comments on youtube, but lets be honest the odds of having an intelligent discussion with knowledgeable people on youtube is about good as teaching a panda to play the violin.
I hadn't given open carry much thought in a few years, and it made sense to go to the source, so to speak, and discuss my concerns, get opinions etc.
I enjoy good conversation, figured others might enjoy someone who is pro 2a but flat out says "Yeah, I'm not liking this" dropping by. Sure, I could read old posts, or whatnot, but figured why not just dive right in? Who knows where it will lead. Hopefully at the least a decent intellectual exercise. And so far you guys do not disappoint. I've already heard some excellent points and it's made me reassess some ideas.
Wstar said:
About the videos, some are certainly looking for a confrontation. Some are documenting a confrontation. It's pretty limited to Texas at the moment, as they did not have OC of handguns.
I've OCed every day for over 4 years. I don't think it is rude, nor disruptive. I've carried into Walmart, McD, all kinds of retail stores, my bank a couple of times every week, auto dealers, even bought a 2014 Tundra while open carry. I'm about 1000 to 4, good responses to bad, from people. I see quite a few things that at think are rude or disruptive, yet I rarely make a big deal out of it. If no one ever did anything that might possibly offend someone else, nothing would ever happen and you couldn't leave your home. People need to toughen up a little, and get over themselves. iMO
I've never caused a disruption, even the four bad situations. The other person was causing the disruption.
I open carry for a little bit of a lot of reasons.
I do not believe I should have to pay for the privilege to exercise a Right. You seem to not be convinced completely that it is a Right. At the moment, the Supreme Court disagrees with you. I disagree with some of their decisions lately as well.
I'm a tucked in shirt guy. If it's hot I don't want to wear another piece of clothing like a sweatshirt. I do conceal in the winter when I wear a jacket. I conceal in church every Sunday.
Open carry is the easiest, fastest, simplest, most efficient means of accessing my weapon, should I need it.
I believe I am responsible for my own safety.
Concealed carry is an offensive move, open carry is a defensive move.
M
The main reason I don't conceal, I believe open carry is a deterrent factor. It appears to me that most pro conceal/adamant anti open carry people do not view themselves as a possible victim. They seem to think that their heightened sense of situational awareness would never allow them to be a victim. That they would be the one to come to the aid of someone else who is a victim, using the tactical advantage of concealed carry. That is an offensive move. But, if you put concealed carry in the role of the victim, what happens to your tactical advantage? It's possibly a detriment.
I'm responsible for my own safety, and that of my family, or party I'm with. My first intention is to get to safety, and get my family to safety. That probably looks like some kind of an armed retreat to cover. I have no preconceived notion of being a hero, a sheepdog, or such. You are responsible for your own safety. If you want to rely on the police to keep you safe, be my guest. I will not stop you. Once I am safe, and my family is safe, I may or may not go to the aid of someone else who is a victim. To many possible scenarios to detail. My open carry allows the good people to quickly assess me as a threat. Hopefully not. My open carry allows the not so good people to also assess me as a candidate for a possible victim. Hopefully not. I'm thinking most will decide to persue someone else instead, maybe a concealed carrier who looks unarmed, then he can use that tactical advantage!!
Granted, if I stumble into the middle of a multi million dollar robbery where they would shoot a security guard or a policeman, I'm probably in trouble. So is everyone else.
It's a fluid thought process, constantly changing and adapting.
Several good points, thank you. Sorry I'm only going to hit on the one right now, I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed trying to catch up.
Has the supreme court said open carry is a right? My understanding is that they have not. They have said private gun ownership is a right. To be honest I haven't kept too up to date recently, but if you are referring to Heller, then I'm pretty sure they did specifically say the right to be able to purchase one and have it in your home for self protection.
Skidmark said:
So if I'm reading your posts right, you are not a supporter of "the implement that shall not be mentioned" and have only a 'little" heartburn over the OC of a holstered handgun.
To clarify I support owning "the implement that shall not be mentioned", not so much the walking around suburbia with it...or mabey I should say very much not for the walking etc.
But yeah, only a little heartburn over OC of a holstered.
I'll try to quantify that to some degree, I first got here thinking it was a truly bad idea, but mostly annoyed by the other thing. I've now softened some on OC of holstered. Ok, maybe your personal area is rural, made CC fees really high. If you aren't scaring the locals, and people around those parts don't call the cops just because a man has a gun on his hip, then what do I care....do as you please. I don't faint at the sight of a gun in a holster, if the locals by you don't either, then have at it.
If it's no fuss then who cares? I get that.
Part of the reason my dad first bought guns was because he bought a little weekend hobby farm in a rural area to be able to decompress from a stressful job. I'll never forget he bought a Winchester 94 in a one horse town on the way out there one time (the first gun ever owned by my family). As we leave the gun store, my dad is walking down Main (and only) Street with the Winny tilted back against his shoulder, a man passed by and said "The bank is that way". Obviously just kind of playfully.... but even back then, and out there, and maybe 20 paces from a gun shop a passerby kind of noted it was unusual to see. Not that anyone was freaking out. It was just a noteworthy oddity. Kinda like a woman with bright purple hair might be a noteworthy oddity.
A city is different though. Again there is a bit of context issue. People aren't as laid back, it's not usual. And I get the argument that it's only unusual until it isn't...the more people who OC are seen out and about, the less people find it unusual. And that might work ok in a rural area, or even to an extant in suburbia, where your neighbors might know you as that guy who carries.
But even there you are starting to have too many people around. You would need massive numbers of people to OC before it would even remotely be not noteworthy. Your immediate neighbors might get used to it, but in a larger town/city there will be someone new driving by every couple seconds. Cops might end up fielding 20+ calls while you open carry for less than a mile of walking. Let me put it this way, my current zip code has 30,000 people and is just a hair over 3 square miles. There are simply too many people doing too many different things at a time for enough folks to get used to 3 or 4 people occasionally walking around OC'ing. Which around here would be 3 or 4 more people than I have even seen do it. It's just not seen in this area.
Don't get me wrong, these folks if they are in any large way anti-gun are totally hypocrites about it, because these folks certainly own guns. Step outside at midnight on New Years Eve and it sounds like the invasion of Baghdad! Those certainly aren't fireworks!
But a guy walking down the street with one, that you do not see here. If one is, then its a safe bet that the cops are already on the way.
I'm not so provincial as to think all places are like where I currently am of course. But my coming here to ask around this is in response to those type videos.
I remember several years back there were a ton of videos on youtube about fairly positive OC. At that time it was all pretty much holstered handguns, occasionally they would take one off the guy to check it, but mostly it was just a quick "we got some calls, and are just checking in" followed by some friendly conversation. Those seemed fine, really low key. Then it was the occasional kind of group event, some cops would be there maybe, usually just standing back a bit, overlooking it, possibly some friendly conversation. These last ones though, neither party seems laid back or friendly. I got to thinking "what is this stupidity.
Whew, I got a bit wordy there, I'll be back by later or tomorrow. I gotta start being a whole lot more brief. Thanks and sorry.