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TN Open Carry Report

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
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mayberry, nc
Actually, for all of next week, there will be a Police Roadblock up on Old Greenbrier Highway to check drivers licenses and registration, so they will be stopping a lot of people to see if they have permits to drive. This is following the week long night time "Sobriety Checkpoints" They have had up all of last week, because some dumba** teenager got drunk, took his car joyriding on a revoked license, and smashed into an oncoming car a few weeks ago on Hwy 41, I think it killed one baby and an older woman, and put a child and the mother in the hospital. Kneejerk reactions that are only serving to pad their pockets, of course.


I did call the Department, but I was brushed off with essentially what Kingfish said. the cop that took the call told me I was lucky the cop didnt prone me out right in the middle of the store, handcuff me, and -then- check for my permit. Shows the mentality of these cops I suppose.

just to let you know you can refuse to comply with a roadblock to search for no reason. they must give you a RAS to the fact you have broken the law. they may still place you in detention but they will lose if you are legal. if more people would do this there wouldn't be any more road blocks.

now most people will comply for the fact they don't know any better or they just want to get by
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
yeah , and it is illegal to drive a car in TN, without a permission from the state. wonder how many people they stoped to see if they had a permit to be driving? 5, 10, 100? how many people did you see driving a car today and wondered if the had a permission slip?
Incorrect. In Tennessee, it is unlawful to drive on public roads without a license...There is a HUGE distinction. If Tennessee law said it was only unlawful to carry a firearm if you were unlicensed then a RASless stop would not be allowed under Tennessee law. But, it currently IS unlawful to carry a firearm...PERIOD.

but the main point is they were rude and obnoxious. if i proved i was legally carrying, they would have been ranting to the hand. but i would have also asked them why they were open carrying
Eh....Not a thing you are going to be able to do about it....Especially without audio...And even then...
 

Kingfish

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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
Since open carry is legal it cannot, absent other suspicious activity, give rise to the necessary “reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot.”
Open carry (or ANY carry) in Tennessee is NOT legal. There IS a crime afoot...That of carrying a firearm. Having a permit is a defense to that crime. Tennessee is a rare state in this regard. CC used to be unlawful in Georgia with the permit being a defense to that crime but the law has recently been changed to align CC with OC where it is only a crime if you are not licensed.
 

Grapeshot

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Valhalla
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by Grapeshot

Since open carry is legal it cannot, absent other suspicious activity, give rise to the necessary “reasonable suspicion that crime is afoot.”
Open carry (or ANY carry) in Tennessee is NOT legal. There IS a crime afoot...That of carrying a firearm. Having a permit is a defense to that crime. Tennessee is a rare state in this regard. CC used to be unlawful in Georgia with the permit being a defense to that crime but the law has recently been changed to align CC with OC where it is only a crime if you are not licensed.

I'm going to have to set a mental space aside just for that condition - it offends my Virginia state of mind. :(

Of course I will defer to those that have a closer alliance/working knowledge of Tennessee statutes.

I am offended by guilty until proven innocent conditions - trust there are those trying to change this.

PS - a link to the law would be good.
 
Last edited:

Nascar24Glock

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Jun 29, 2011
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252
Location
Johnson City, TN
I'm going to have to set a mental space aside just for that condition - it offends my Virginia state of mind. :(

Of course I will defer to those that have a closer alliance/working knowledge of Tennessee statutes.

I am offended by guilty until proven innocent conditions - trust there are those trying to change this.

PS - a link to the law would be good.

Unfortunately Grapeshot, he/she is right. Firearms carry of any kind is illegal in Tennessee, EVEN IN YOUR OWN HOME!!! Being in your home is simply one of several defenses to the crime. So, in theory, the following scenario could take place. Let's say you're talking to a fellow firearms enthusiast, and you tell him "yeah, I've lived here in Tennessee for several years; and I keep a few loaded guns in my home ever since the kids went off to college." And, let's say a cop overhears it. Under a strict interpretation of our law, that counts as probable cause for a search warrant for your house. At that point, if he really wants to ruin your day, he could swear out a warrant (just saying "the suspect is illegally possessing firearms"), search your home, confiscate the firearms, and arrest you for possessing a firearm "with the intent to go armed." At that point, if the prosecutor also wants to ruin your day, he could force it to go to trial. At that point, you would have to produce your title deed or rental agreement to prove that the house is your dwelling place and that you therefore meet one of the defenses. Then, you would have to hope that you didn't get a jury comprised of 12 members of Mayors Against Illegal Guns, the Brady Campaign to Reduce Gun Violence, the Violence Policy Center, etc. and that they correctly find you not guilty. Then, if you really get on the dunglist of the local police department, once you go to retrieve your confiscated firearms, that would give them probable cause to arrest you and start the process all over again (this time, the defense you would have to present at trial would be that the guns were unloaded).

Not only that, but us open carriers technically run the risk of being arrested everytime we open carry. Since the permit is another defense to the charge, a cop on a power trip could arrest an OC'er and make them present their permit at trial.

The reason for this is that the exemptions in the law (which I will cite shortly) are not EXCEPTIONS. They are DEFENSES. If it were the former, as it is in many states, then the prosecution would have to prove that you committed the crime and that the exceptions do not apply to you. Since it is the later, the prosecutor has to prove only that you possessed the weapon. It would then be your duty to prove, by a preponderance of the evidence, that you meet one of the defenses (yes, you have to prove your innocence, basically).

Now, the citation.

TCA 39-17-1307 Unlawful carrying or possession of a weapon.
(a) (1) A person commits an offense who carries with the intent to go armed a firearm, a knife with a blade length exceeding four inches (4''), or a club.
..........

TCA 39-17-1308 Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.
(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:
[goes on to list 10 defenses to the charge]
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
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mayberry, nc
Incorrect. In Tennessee, it is unlawful to drive on public roads without a license...There is a HUGE distinction. If Tennessee law said it was only unlawful to carry a firearm if you were unlicensed then a RASless stop would not be allowed under Tennessee law. But, it currently IS unlawful to carry a firearm...PERIOD.

Eh....Not a thing you are going to be able to do about it....Especially without audio...And even then...

Uh, Thanks for agreeing with me. do you have anything on how many drivers they stopped and searched?
 

papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,222
Location
mayberry, nc
I'm going to have to set a mental space aside just for that condition - it offends my Virginia state of mind. :(

Of course I will defer to those that have a closer alliance/working knowledge of Tennessee statutes.

I am offended by guilty until proven innocent conditions - trust there are those trying to change this.

PS - a link to the law would be good.

It's the same in NC (as in VA) it is against the law to conceal without a permission slip. though in both our state's, the constitution prevails, and it is legal to OC
 

Q-Tip

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
102
Location
Mississippi/Tennessee
I'm going to have to set a mental space aside just for that condition - it offends my Virginia state of mind. :(

Of course I will defer to those that have a closer alliance/working knowledge of Tennessee statutes.

I am offended by guilty until proven innocent conditions - trust there are those trying to change this.

PS - a link to the law would be good.


This line of thinking is merely popular opinion in TN, and, to my knowledge, has not been backed by any court decisions or AG opinions. I would love to see some real evidence that one could be convicted for refusing to showing an HCP simply on the whim of an LEO.
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
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mayberry, nc
Irrelevant to the discussion since it is not a crime to drive on public roads. It is only a crime if one is not licensed. The difference is real.

kingfish, I still don't get your argument. perhaps if i phrase it so you can get it

not illegal to own a car in TN
not illegal to own a gun in TN

illegal to drive a car on public roads in TN
illegal to carry a gun in public in TN

legal if you have a drivers license to drive on public roads in TN
legal to carry a gun if you have the license to carry in public in TN

can you point to which of these statements is wrong?
 

Kingfish

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Apr 10, 2007
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Atlanta, Georgia, USA
kingfish, I still don't get your argument. perhaps if i phrase it so you can get it

not illegal to own a car in TN - CORRECT
not illegal to own a gun in TN - CORRECT

illegal to drive a car on public roads in TN - INCORRECT. It is only illegal IF you are unlicensed.
illegal to carry a gun in public in TN - CORRECT

legal if you have a drivers license to drive on public roads in TN - CORRECT
legal to carry a gun if you have the license to carry in public in TN - INCORRECT. Still a crime but having the permit is a defense to that crime (the judge must allow it as evidence.)

can you point to which of these statements is wrong?
Oh, and my handle is "Kingfish"...Proper names are almost always capitalized.
 

Silvertongue

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
Finally got the permit today, and had to make a trip out and about.
A short trip to Dairy Queen, though it was technically concealed because of the jacket (winter time, ya know). I still flashed it when I swept the jacket back for my wallet, and the cashier didn't seem to notice.
All in all, very comforting. Can't wait for the weather to warm up.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
Finally got the permit today, and had to make a trip out and about.
A short trip to Dairy Queen, though it was technically concealed because of the jacket (winter time, ya know). I still flashed it when I swept the jacket back for my wallet, and the cashier didn't seem to notice.
All in all, very comforting. Can't wait for the weather to warm up.

That is exactly why some of us carry our wallet on the less dominate side - also one's hand does not go near the gun when extracting the wallet, leaves no doubt/confusion about what you are doing.
 

Silvertongue

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
Much obliged for the tip, Mr. 'Shot.
Today was warm enough to go to the local Dairy Queen for lunch without a jacket. So I walked in and saw a close friend working. Since it was a slow day, we chatted for a few moments while she typed in my usual order and we waited for it to be ready.
I could see her thinking of a way to ask about the pistol, so I said "Go ahead and ask." I thought I was ready to answer. Here's basically how it went down:
Tabby: Why do you carry a gun?
Me: Because I can't afford armed security.
T: Yeah, you could, I'd work for cheap.
M: Um. What?
T: That was a pretty weak answer, you should come up with a story like someone is after you or something.
M: I'll give it some thought.
As I got my tray and went to sit down, I noticed the only other guy in the place eyeing me. Not sure if it was because of the blued 1911 with flat dark earth grips, or the Tennessee shirt and hat (the Alabama bandwagon has been rolling around here). I gave him a quick nod, set my hat on the table, and proceeded to pray over the food.
He didn't look at me again.
A couple minutes into my meal, two police officers walked in. I couldn't see the man's wife, who sat across from him, so I didn't know if my first true Open Carry experience was going to include a Man With a Gun call. The two police officers didn't even nod at me and simply ordered milkshakes. The man got up from his table and went up to the front of the store where the officers were waiting. Here I thought "Oh man, they just happened to walk in right on time for him to ask them to say something to me." He ordered two milkshakes, his wife met him at the front, and all four of them left.
Tabby walked back over and asked if I had thought any more about her question. I told her about something I read once:
I have three main goals of self-defense. First is to never be the victim of a successful violent crime. Second is to never allow a loved one to fall victim to a successful violent crime. Third is to go through life without having to hurt anybody. Openly carrying my firearm seems to be the best way to accomplish all three.
She liked that a lot better.
 

papa bear

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Jul 25, 2010
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mayberry, nc
looks like you were paranoid as He!!, SILVER TONGUE. i notice though you didn't think about how many people were armed also. i counted at least three
 

SgtScott31

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Joined
Jan 6, 2011
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158
Location
Nashville
This line of thinking is merely popular opinion in TN, and, to my knowledge, has not been backed by any court decisions or AG opinions. I would love to see some real evidence that one could be convicted for refusing to showing an HCP simply on the whim of an LEO.

The proof of the valid HCP at the first court date (prelim hearing/plea bargain) would likely guarantee this would never make it in front of a jury. With that said, the person refusing to produce the HCP who ended up getting arrested has to deal with the court costs, time off from work, possible attorney retainer, and related expungement fees for getting the unlawful carry charge off his record ($1500-$2k easy). This doesn't include the possibility of the Dept of Safety stepping in and threatening to yank his HCP. Keep in mind that's civil in nature so the same standard of proof doesn't have to be met as if it were a criminal matter.

I doubt a search would find any caselaw or AG opinion on it as I hope HCP holders are responsible enough to abide by the current law(s) which require to display a permit at request of a LEO.
 

Silvertongue

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Joined
Jan 14, 2013
Messages
213
Location
Marion County, Tennessee
Nothing Interesting at Kimball Waffle House

Wow, what a boring meal yesterday.
Here's my carry and outfit for the day: Plain, solid navy polo shirt tucked into khaki cargo pants, with a thick brown belt. Carry was a Glock 21 SF in a Safariland retention holster, strong side. I don't have any spare Glock mags yet, they're kind of hard to find nowadays.
As I parked at my local Waffle House, I noticed that I was the only car in the lot but there was still a man at the bar. He was over to the left, and my favorite seat was in the back right corner, so he didn't notice my Glock on my strong side.
As I walked to my seat, I greeted the two workers on staff (I'm a regular customer) and did my best to act like I was ignoring the man, who looked to be in his 40's. The man leaned across the counter and asked the cook whether he and the single female server were the only two working. The cook responded to the affirmative, and the man's eyes went to the sever as she brought me my drink.
After she walked away from my table, his eyes stayed on my Glock. I saw him rise out of his seat and stare directly at my side for a good five seconds. His eyes then went up to see me staring back at him. I gave him a very slow nod.
He twitched, paid for his food, and left.
What a boring meal.
 

RikuNoganashi

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
30
Location
Cookeville TN
Old Chicago is anti gun.

I just wanted to report on an incident that just occurred at Old Chicago in Clarksville. I was here two weeks ago with a few friends, and I was run out by the night manager for openly carrying. According to him at the time, the outdated sign on his wall stated that carrying a gun in a bar was illegal, and that I had to leave. Lacking the necessary papers to prove him wrong, I did so. I came back tonight with the current state laws printed out, along with the laws regarding properly posting at the doors if they refused to allow guns in the building. I was told that it didn't matter what the laws were, because if the staff felt threatened, then they could ask the person to leave. The friends I had been about to sit down and eat with do not carry at all, so they don't understand why I am making such a big deal about it, but as I told the manager, I refuse to spend money in a restaurant that refuses my legal rights. I'm sending this from one of my friends tablets in their parking lot, so please forgive any typos, I am not used to these things.
 
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