• We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
  • The forum will be down for about an hour this weekend for maintenance. I apologize for the inconvenience.
  • If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
  • Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.

Student Arrested for Gun At High School ?

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
I just read this story. Other than that federal GFSZ can someone tell me what law this student broke ?

http://missoulian.com/news/local/mi...cle_d09092ca-2516-11e1-a88f-0019bb2963f4.html


An overheard conversation on a bus or at a bus stop led to the discovery of a handgun in the backpack of a Willard Alternative High School student Monday afternoon, according to Missoula County Public Schools.

A male student was taken into custody after he admitted to bringing the gun - which was not loaded - to school, said Karen Allen, executive regional director for the Big Sky district that includes Willard.

"Our belief is that this was a situation where, for whatever reason, a student had a handgun in a backpack and showed other students," she said. "But there was never any indication ... of any kind of animosity between students or that the student had brought the gun for a purpose. Although we were very anxious to find it, we were not feeling a lack of safety."

Willard was locked down for about half an hour Monday afternoon, with students ordered to stay in classrooms, while Missoula police officers and Principal Jane Bennett walked its halls, searching for the backpack, she said. Willard doesn't have lockers, she said, so they checked "any nooks and crannies or any spots around the building where a student might have stashed a backpack."

A call from a parent Monday morning tipped school administrators off to the possibility that someone had brought a gun, she said. The parent's child had overheard talk of a gun, she said.

"They were on the bus or waiting for a bus," she said.

Some of the students at the bus stop were from Hellgate High and others were from Willard, she said, so Hellgate School Resource Officer Jim Johnson interviewed students at both schools.

"It kind of came to a little dead end" Monday morning, Allen said - and then more information arose. Johnson returned to Willard and "interviewed a young man who he thought might actually have the gun. Ultimately, the young man told him that yes, he did," Allen said. The name of the student was not released.

A news release from Missoula County Public Schools said it was unclear if the student taken into custody brought the gun to school or if other students were involved. A Missoula police investigation continues.

A few parents called Willard as the incident unfolded, Allen said. "People have been calm and they've been supportive," she said.

Allen said that all parents of Willard students were to receive a message Monday evening about the incident.

There will be added police presence at both schools Tuesday morning so that students can question officers or relay any concerns, she said. In addition, teachers were to be briefed first thing Tuesday morning so that they could discuss the incident with students in small groups, she said.



Read more: http://missoulian.com/news/local/mi...516-11e1-a88f-0019bb2963f4.html#ixzz1gRKR6Fc5
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Concealed without a conceal carry permit. While conceal carry is lawful in rural areas in MT without a permit, you are still required to have a permit within an incorporated city limits.
MCA 45-8-317

Additionally, there is an MCA that makes it unlawful to carry WITHIN a school building MCA 45-8-361.
 

tombrewster421

Regular Member
Joined
May 25, 2010
Messages
1,326
Location
Roy, WA
Concealed without a conceal carry permit. While conceal carry is lawful in rural areas in MT without a permit, you are still required to have a permit within an incorporated city limits.
MCA 45-8-317

Additionally, there is an MCA that makes it unlawful to carry WITHIN a school building MCA 45-8-361.

Does it count as concealed if it's not loaded? Sounds more like transporting an unloaded weapon in an opaque container. I think the only thing he did wrong was being a minor in possession and taking the gun to a place that is a no no.
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Does it count as concealed if it's not loaded? Sounds more like transporting an unloaded weapon in an opaque container. I think the only thing he did wrong was being a minor in possession and taking the gun to a place that is a no no.

First of all 'Loaded' is not defined in MT. Additionally, the conceal carry law does not have an exception for opaque carry.

Age of possession in MT is 14 for open and 18 for conceal.

Another fact, MT explicity repeals the Federal GFZA.

Conceal violation is also dependent on if a backpack is consider wearing apparel.

wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel of the person carrying or bearing the weapon
 
Last edited:

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
Concealed without a conceal carry permit. While conceal carry is lawful in rural areas in MT without a permit, you are still required to have a permit within an incorporated city limits.
MCA 45-8-317

Additionally, there is an MCA that makes it unlawful to carry WITHIN a school building MCA 45-8-361.

I would argue the handgun wasnt "concealed" as defined by law but rather being "transported" because it was in a back pack and as far as I know Montana doesnt require transport in locked containers.

Also, the person in question was 18 and the handgun was not loaded.

According to the follow up article the person in question has already pleaded guilty :(
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
I would argue the handgun wasnt "concealed" as defined by law but rather being "transported" because it was in a back pack and as far as I know Montana doesnt require transport in locked containers.

Also, the person in question was 18 and the handgun was not loaded.

According to the follow up article the person in question has already pleaded guilty :(

MT does not have a firearm transport law. There is no exception for such in MT conceal law either. The question of if it was consider concealed is what i called out in the post above yours, is a backpack considered wearing apperal? I have not looked for case law on this.

Assuming there is no case law the DA could say its considered concealed and use the case to define if a backpack is wearing apperal.
 

roadrider

New member
Joined
Feb 25, 2011
Messages
6
Location
N.W.Montana
conceled carry

Good question is a backpack carry conceled? Can a woman carry in her purse ? and can a person carry in a fanny pak ? Or would all thes types of carry be considered conceled carry ?
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Good question is a backpack carry conceled? Can a woman carry in her purse ? and can a person carry in a fanny pak ? Or would all thes types of carry be considered conceled carry ?

Due to my lack of time to search for case law I decided to search for definitions.

15 USCS § 1191 (d), [Title 15. Commerce and Trade; Chapter 25. Flammable Fabrics] the term article of wearing apparel means “any costume or article of clothing worn or intended to be worn by individuals.”

Uslegal.com also defines it as clothing or items worn by an individual.

Given that information, one would think a backpack, purse, etc would fall outside of the definition.

Which means the individual that brought the gun into the school may only be in violation of carrying in a school building... I wonder what charges were brought.

By the way, I am not a lawyer. All facts should be independently verified by you or a lawyer.
 
Last edited:

Ca Patriot

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2010
Messages
2,330
Location
, ,
Yeah they probably got him on the school charge. After reading the law though I realized it only says "buildings" and not merely on school grounds. It would be interesting to know if the cops let him enter a building just so they could get him on that charge.
 

xmanhockey7

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 15, 2010
Messages
1,195
I thought it was illegal in Montana to not carry a gun to school? All kidding aside it doesn't look like the school overreacted and started blaming guns for this.
"Our belief is that this was a situation where, for whatever reason, a student had a handgun in a backpack and showed other students," she said. "But there was never any indication ... of any kind of animosity between students or that the student had brought the gun for a purpose. Although we were very anxious to find it, we were not feeling a lack of safety."
 
Top