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Road rage incident - Yogurt vs. Handgun on 95 near Quantico

ocholsteroc

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
1,317
Location
Virginia, Hampton Roads, NC 9 miles away
I love the comments,
"mar1 OMG! Brandishing a firearm is a misdemeanor, but throwing yogurt is a felony? Oh, come on! Threatening someone with a firearm should NEVER be a misdemeanor.
6:46 PM, 11.8.10
RejectEditanonymous Know the law and common sense. Throwing any object at a moving car is dangerous. Showing someone a gun telling them to back the eff off is not.

"How sad, the guy with the weapon will probably lose his right to carry or own weapons in VA" Not necessarily. The driver with the yogurt was committing a felony. Are you not allowed to use deadly force against felony attack? Which he didn't, he just "threatened" to by brandishing the weapon.
"

Thats 3 different posts.
 
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TFred

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2008
Messages
7,750
Location
Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
Yeah this was reported in the local paper a few days ago. The yogurt thrower has no defense. The brandishing guy could very well be justified. Facts are sparse, we'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

TFred
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,474
Location
Northern Piedmont
Sounds to me like each was properly charged. Though I'd be happy to defend either of them, or both of them, if they have enough money (chuckle).

All seriousness aside, I now take the position that when some jerk cuts me off on the highway, or does some other scary or stupid thing, I take that as God's having put someone in my way who desperately needs my prayers. One time I was driving a 1965 VW "bug", sort of a beer can on wheels, for those who don't remember, when a woman driving a Lincoln Mark V swooped over at me on the Capital Beltway I-495 in Springfield. I had to switch lanes pretty quickly to avoid getting killed, and I started screaming and yelling at her. "YOU IDIOT," I yelled. Then The Voice came: "Ok, she's an idiot. You may as well be angry at a dog for being a dog." Now I just pray for those bastards who clearly need all the help they can get. Who knows, it may save a life.
 

wylde007

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2009
Messages
3,035
Location
Va Beach, Occupied VA
You may just sit back and be content in the knowledge that people like that are much more likely to be killed by their own stupidity than anything else.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
You may just sit back and be content in the knowledge that people like that are much more likely to be killed by their own stupidity than anything else.
That right there helps me to take a moment to collect my thoughts and be, calm and cool again when I run across an idiot driver. Some people practically throw themselves to the Reaper by their own stupidity.
 

ElW75

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 5, 2010
Messages
44
Location
Alexandria, Virginia, USA
Gun Goes On, Pride Goes Off

A firearms instructor I know said it best: "Carrying a firearm means that you must be the most level headed person in any situation." This situation was most likely a series of bad decisions, but the guy pulling his gun could have elevated the situation to a place he didn't really want to go. What if, they person who threw the yogurt, after seeing the weapon, pulled one of their own and now a person is dead over a series of stupid actions. Getting home 5 minutes earlier isn't worth your freedom or your life.
 

user

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Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,474
Location
Northern Piedmont
You may just sit back and be content in the knowledge that people like that are much more likely to be killed by their own stupidity than anything else.
I just wish they didn't live long enough to reproduce. Natural selection needs to be given a chance.
 

jmelvin

Founder's Club Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2008
Messages
2,195
Location
Lynchburg, Virginia, USA
When I lived in the Phoenix, AZ area I was privy to a stupid "road rage" incident that could have ended up with someone dead, including me. Both parties escalated the incident unnecessarily. The incident started when a pedestrian carrying a drink in a cup was apparently legally crossing the crosswalk across traffic that had a red light. The pedestrian was walking from the side where there were no cars to the side where the cars were stopped waiting for the light. As the pedestrian neared the end of the crosswalk with still one lane of traffic to cross, the guy in the car in that lane at the light decided to honk at the pedestrian (I don't know if the light had turned green or not) and the pedestrian decided to throw the contents of his cup at the driver who apparently had his window down. They both exchanged some words. The pedestrian then took his good sweet time finishing the crosswalk and the driver turned right to be beside the pedestrian, stopped the car on this major multi-lane road, exited the car and started screaming at the pedestrian. As the driver rounded the front of the car, the pedestrian pulled a gun, pointed it at the driver and told the driver to return to his vehicle in not so nice terms. Driver quickly retreated to his car and blasted away down the street.

I was dumbfounded by the whole incident and didn't much appreciate being in the same general direction of the gun barrel end that was also pointed at the driver before his hasty departure. Thank God he didn't pull the trigger and I safely met my friends for dinner on what was just another Thursday evening.
 
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mark-in-texas

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2010
Messages
320
Location
Richmond, Tx
Testosterone and Hoppe's #9 don't mix! I'm a firm believer in the old 'an armed society is a polite society' motto. If I'm carrying, I try to be the nicest person I can be.
 

DJEEPER

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 26, 2010
Messages
407
Location
Yorktown, ,
Testosterone and Hoppe's #9 don't mix! I'm a firm believer in the old 'an armed society is a polite society' motto. If I'm carrying, I try to be the nicest person I can be.
same here. i make it a point to be overly polite and courteous. We have to get the bad connotation out of the sheeple's mind
 

user

Accomplished Advocate
Joined
Feb 12, 2009
Messages
2,474
Location
Northern Piedmont
I reckon this is where I insert one of my stock comments from the Firearms Seminar (Keep in mind this is about Virginia law and I don't pretend to know spit about AZ or anywhere else):

You really have to know each and every word of the self-defense/defense of others rule cold, and understand what it all means. "If you have a reasonably held, good faith belief, based on an objective body of fact, that you or another innocent third party is faced with the threat of an imminent (or immediate), serious bodily injury, then the use of force, including deadly force, is excusable."

Here's the part that shocks some folks, and is at odds with what you'll hear from cops and other lawyers: If you have a good reason to shoot to kill (with reference to the self defense rule) then pull your gun out and shoot to kill.

This involves taking the life of another person, and is the only real reason for carrying a handgun around in public. I have three fire extinguishers in my house, and I really hope I never have to use one; I don't keep them with the expectation that my house is going to catch on fire, but I'm ready for it to the extent I can be. Same thing with guns; be ready, willing, and able to cause the horrible death of another person, but pray to God you never get put in the situation in which you have to do so. But if you are, you are; you have to be able to do what's necessary to protect yourself, your family, and your home.

But if you do not have a reason to kill, don't even think about the gun; don't talk about it, don't make any reference to it, don't touch it, and above all, do not pull it out of the holster. The way trials work in Virginia makes the use of deadly force sort of a binary choice. You either have to kill someone or you stay perfectly calm and peaceable. There really is no middle ground, unless you're a law enforcement officer who has to intimidate a fleeing felon or serve a search warrant on a house being used for methamphetamine production at 2:00 a.m. Unless you're a law enforcement officer (and even then, regardless of what cops actually get away with, and what you see on TV), the law regarding pointing a gun at someone is pretty tight.

Of course, you can always change your mind and decide that it's safe to put the gun away, after having drawn it with the clear intention of shooting someone.

Also, you note that I do not attempt to depersonalize the person being shot by the use of terms such as "threat", "Zombie" or "Badguy". I don't use euphemisms like "stop the threat". Shooting a human being is shooting a human being, and there's no way around that. If you cannot live with the horror of that thought, you probably ought not be carrying a gun, because it can get you killed. And if you ever have to go to court because of having shot someone, believe me, the two-ton canary in the room will be the fact that you shot someone and there won't be any way to dance around that fact. (One way in which my style is different from other attorneys who like to avoid unpleasant subjects at trial, thinking they'll offend the delicate sensibilities of the jury.)

It isn't always being fast, or even accurate that counts; it's being willing. I found out early that most men, regardless of cause or need, aren't willing; they blink an eye or draw a breath before they pull the trigger...I won't.
- John Bernard Books played by John Wayne in "The Shootist", explaining how he lived to old age despite having been a "gunfighter".
 
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Doug Huffman

Banned
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
9,181
Location
Washington Island, across Death's Door, Wisconsin,
Well said and thank you. Now cross-linked for the strutting fools elsewhere.

I reckon this is where I insert one of my stock comments from the Firearms Seminar (Keep in mind this is about Virginia law and I don't pretend to know spit about AZ or anywhere else):

You really have to know each and every word of the self-defense/defense of others rule cold, and understand what it all means. "If you have a reasonably held, good faith belief, based on an objective body of fact, that you or another innocent third party is faced with the threat of an imminent (or immediate), serious bodily injury, then the use of force, including deadly force, is excusable."

Here's the part that shocks some folks, and is at odds with what you'll hear from cops and other lawyers: If you have a good reason to shoot to kill (with reference to the self defense rule) then pull your gun out and shoot to kill.

This involves taking the life of another person, and is the only real reason for carrying a handgun around in public. I have three fire extinguishers in my house, and I really hope I never have to use one; I don't keep them with the expectation that my house is going to catch on fire, but I'm ready for it to the extent I can be. Same thing with guns; be ready, willing, and able to cause the horrible death of another person, but pray to God you never get put in the situation in which you have to do so. But if you are, you are; you have to be able to do what's necessary to protect yourself, your family, and your home.

But if you do not have a reason to kill, don't even think about the gun; don't talk about it, don't make any reference to it, don't touch it, and above all, do not pull it out of the holster. The way trials work in Virginia makes the use of deadly force sort of a binary choice. You either have to kill someone or you stay perfectly calm and peaceable. There really is no middle ground, unless you're a law enforcement officer who has to intimidate a fleeing felon or serve a search warrant on a house being used for methamphetamine production at 2:00 a.m. Unless you're a law enforcement officer (and even then, regardless of what cops actually get away with, and what you see on TV), the law regarding pointing a gun at someone is pretty tight.

Of course, you can always change your mind and decide that it's safe to put the gun away, after having drawn it with the clear intention of shooting someone.

Also, you note that I do not attempt to depersonalize the person being shot by the use of terms such as "threat", "Zombie" or "Badguy". I don't use euphemisms like "stop the threat". Shooting a human being is shooting a human being, and there's no way around that. If you cannot live with the horror of that thought, you probably ought not be carrying a gun, because it can get you killed. And if you ever have to go to court because of having shot someone, believe me, the two-ton canary in the room will be the fact that you shot someone and there won't be any way to dance around that fact. (One way in which my style is different from other attorneys who like to avoid unpleasant subjects at trial, thinking they'll offend the delicate sensibilities of the jury.)

- John Bernard Books played by John Wayne in "The Shootist", explaining how he lived to old age despite having been a "gunfighter".
Thank you.
 

SouthernBoy

Regular Member
Joined
May 12, 2007
Messages
5,834
Location
Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
I have had the good fortune to have attended two of user's seminars and I highly recommend others try to do the same. I learned a great deal and my attendance gave me reason to do some more research and learning about this topic. What one finds is how much they don't know and that tends to be a humbling experience. The real value from seminars such as this is not only the facts you'll pick up and the untruths that will be dispelled, but how deadly serious this really is (no pun intended).

Excellent post, user.
 

Neplusultra

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2007
Messages
2,224
Location
Christiansburg, Virginia, USA
I agree, excellent post user. The term I use is "moral clarity". Know what is a deadly force threat, know that the person making that threat has given up his right to his life because of his actions, and defend yourself decisively. It is horrible, but remember, it was THEIR choice to put you in that situation.

I've never pulled my gun, never shot anyone and have never killed anyone. So take this to be what it is. IMO, given perfect moral clarity I would be sad that person made the choice that forced me to do what had to be done but I believe I would feel good about having done it. Because it was the right thing to do, and not doing so would have been wrong with equal or worse tragic results......
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
I'd rather use these on the road:

http://www.roadragecards.com/

Sure do look funny!
Given the mentality of some of the drivers I see on the roads, those cards would probably be a surefire roadrage igniter.

My preference is to just keep my cool behind the wheel and, if necessary, find a place to pull off the road until the offender is well away from me. This was true before I started carrying and is even more necessary now.

There is no substitute for defensive driving and applying your situational awareness to your driving. Believe me, it will keep you alive.

War story: In 2000, I transferred to Cairo, Egypt with the company I was working for. My boss and his wife picked me up at the airport and we went for a cuppa. I can still remember him saying, "When, not if, but when you have an accident...."

I drove there for two years and never had an accident. That in a city of twenty million people where you have to share the streets with donkeys and camels!!
 
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