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Renaissance Firearms banned carry in store

nhsig220

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2008
Messages
84
Location
New Hampshire
Personally, I think that using that pad is more of a danger then using nothing. It is NOT natural to load/unload a handgun in that position. That, in and of itself can and will lead to something bad happening.
 

tito887

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 6, 2008
Messages
146
Location
, ,
Will not be doing buisness here.

We have had several instances where people have brought firearms in for trade that were loaded. We have also had customers who wished to purchase holsters wanting to use their own (loaded) weapon). For the safety of our staff & costumers we have initiated this policy.
I can not request a LEO to remove his weapon from any place he has legal jurisdiction to carry.
Please feel free to call me if you have any further questions,

Ernie Shipman
603-994-GUNS
Life Member NRA

Thanks for adding your commentary here Ernie. Unfortunately I could not in good conscious do business with a gun shop that would not allow me to carry. It sounds like the appropriate policy would be to not permit loaded firearms for customers that need service or would like to sell. But at the end of the day it is your policy and your private property. I don't see why you can't request that law enforcement take off their pistols. Allowing cops to carry over the individual just adds insult to injury. I suppose a choice will have to be made. You've made it.
 

hermannr

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,327
Location
Okanogan Highland
Ernie, I will never be in your store as I live 3000 miles away, but may I state,,,I am not attacking you personally, this is a general statement of a rule I live by ok?

Trustworthy people generally trust other people until proven other wise.

When I owned my own business (I am now retired) I took checks and submitted them to the bank. If a check bounced (and over the years I did have a couple that did) I would contact the party involved to see if it was a person problem, or a bank problem, or they were just deadbeats.

In all those years I had one (out of thousands of checks received) came from what I would call an actual "deadbeat"..that is, they had no expectation of ever paying the bill in the first place (and that was a commercial customer no less). Everyone else, it was a mistake, sometimes the bank's, sometimes theirs, and the problem check was eventually corrected. I never submitted a check twice without the other party's OK, never, and I never sent anything to collection, even my one "deadbeat".

What I found was, if you treat your customers with respect, and they will return the favor. To tell someone not to bring his/her loaded personal carry weapon into your store (not one that is for trade) is an insult to their integrity.

Personnally, the LGS I trade with has this sign at the door: "All weapons to be considered for trade or consignment must be unloaded and the breach bolt open before entering the store". There is another LGS in this general area that has the same sign you do, I will not deal with the man....to me: if he does not trust me, I will return the favor and not trust or deal with him.
 

ArmedFatherOf2

New member
Joined
Jun 30, 2011
Messages
6
Location
Manchester, NH
We have had several instances where people have brought firearms in for trade that were loaded. We have also had customers who wished to purchase holsters wanting to use their own (loaded) weapon). For the safety of our staff & costumers we have initiated this policy.
I can not request a LEO to remove his weapon from any place he has legal jurisdiction to carry.
Please feel free to call me if you have any further questions,

Ernie Shipman
603-994-GUNS
Life Member NRA

How about a sign that says "No Loaded, UNHOLSTERED Weapons"?

I Agree with langzaiguy on this one... i have been to Riley's Gun Shop in Hooksett and a few others and they have signs that read as clear as day "Loaded Handguns Must Remain Holstered at all times, No Loaded Rifles or Shotguns allowed in Store" (not that Riley's really follows their own rule since i was in there and the guy behind the counter asked me to see my sidearm, to try it in a holster {obviously i removed the mag and cleared the chamber, even tho i had cleared it before entering})
 

Rattrapper

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
218
Location
Swanzey,NH, ,
Hi All, This thread has been shipped and linked over NortheastShooters.com. So now it is going closer to home, and it will get the desired effect.
 

KBCraig

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
4,889
Location
Granite State of Mind
Trustworthy people generally trust other people until proven other wise.

When I owned my own business (I am now retired) I took checks and submitted them to the bank. If a check bounced (and over the years I did have a couple that did) I would contact the party involved to see if it was a person problem, or a bank problem, or they were just deadbeats.

In all those years I had one (out of thousands of checks received) came from what I would call an actual "deadbeat"..that is, they had no expectation of ever paying the bill in the first place (and that was a commercial customer no less). Everyone else, it was a mistake, sometimes the bank's, sometimes theirs, and the problem check was eventually corrected. I never submitted a check twice without the other party's OK, never, and I never sent anything to collection, even my one "deadbeat".
Nice. I broke the quote here, just because I want to emphasize your next point:

What I found was, if you treat your customers with respect, and they will return the favor.
The reverse is also true: when you treat your customers as thieves and enemies, they frequently respond as such. It's not that law-abiding folks will turn into thieves; rather, law-abiding folks treated as thieves by store owners simply won't return. Thieves are accustomed to being treated as such, and will keep coming. Honest shoppers aren't, and won't.

Target sucks up the price of shoplifting as being a cost that is less than it would cost them to alienate customers. K-Mart treats every honest shopper like a criminal. Guess which suffers a higher rate of theft?

Take a look at any busy corner in sub-/urban America: on one corner, you have a big, busy, well-lighted convenience store where customers can buy gas, come inside to buy drinks or snacks, or use the restroom. On the opposite corner you have an "inconvenience store" (usually Phillips 66, in my region), where the doors are locked, you have to talk to the attendant through a speaker, all transactions are done through "the drawer" (and if it doesn't fit, you can't buy it), and every customer is treated as a thief.

Guess which one gets robbed? Yup, the one with fewer customers as witnesses!

I don't know if our drive-by jeweler will be back. If he does come back, I hope he buys some "no robbery allowed" stickers, so we don't have to worry about anyone pulling a gun on him.

That should work at least as well as restraining orders prevent domestic violence.
 
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
4
Location
NH
Clarification of position

Hello all. As the owner of both Renaissance Firearms, LLC & Renaissance Signs, Inc. I think I have a right to add in the discussion.
1. I am a life member of the NRA, a business supporting member of GONH (Gun Owners of NH) and support the local clubs (Major Waldron, Farmington Fish & Game, 4H shooting program) with donations & goods. We are Not anti gun or anti 2nd amendment or anti carry. I am also an NRA basic pistol instructor.
2. When we put the sign on the door, it was similar in it's message to many I had seen at gun shops in the area and in other states I have been in. Our primary concern in our store is safety. We have had numerous instances where customers have either brought in firearms for trade that were not unloaded or produced loaded firearms from a concealment to try on a holster. We also run a commercial sign shop on the same location. Our shop is quite small, and most of my sign customers are uncomfortable with the guns around. During the course of a normal day I can't keep track of the # of times a gun is swept across my body - I am trying to think of the safety of myself, my staff of both firearm & sign employees and my customers.
3. I have always taken the approach that if you are legally carrying concealed in my shop, if I don't know about it & then I don't concern myself with it, as long as the weapon stays concealed.
4. I am open to possibly changing the wording to something along the lines of:
"ALL Firearms MUST
be unloaded & either
cased or action open.
LEO's and Licensed CCW
permits exempt."

Respectfully,
Ernie Shipman
Owner, Renaissance Firearms
 

jrd929

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2011
Messages
53
Location
Hampton, New Hampshire, United States
Hello all. As the owner of both Renaissance Firearms, LLC & Renaissance Signs, Inc. I think I have a right to add in the discussion.
1. I am a life member of the NRA, a business supporting member of GONH (Gun Owners of NH) and support the local clubs (Major Waldron, Farmington Fish & Game, 4H shooting program) with donations & goods. We are Not anti gun or anti 2nd amendment or anti carry. I am also an NRA basic pistol instructor.
2. When we put the sign on the door, it was similar in it's message to many I had seen at gun shops in the area and in other states I have been in. Our primary concern in our store is safety. We have had numerous instances where customers have either brought in firearms for trade that were not unloaded or produced loaded firearms from a concealment to try on a holster. We also run a commercial sign shop on the same location. Our shop is quite small, and most of my sign customers are uncomfortable with the guns around. During the course of a normal day I can't keep track of the # of times a gun is swept across my body - I am trying to think of the safety of myself, my staff of both firearm & sign employees and my customers.
3. I have always taken the approach that if you are legally carrying concealed in my shop, if I don't know about it & then I don't concern myself with it, as long as the weapon stays concealed.
4. I am open to possibly changing the wording to something along the lines of:
"ALL Firearms MUST
be unloaded & either
cased or action open.
LEO's and Licensed CCW
permits exempt."

Respectfully,
Ernie Shipman
Owner, Renaissance Firearms

I'd say adopt the same policy Riley's Gun Shop has, "Loaded Handguns Must Remain Holstered at all times, No Loaded Rifles or Shotguns allowed in Store", It's short sweet and to the point. The revised version still singles out those who OC and don't have permits. My gun with it's action open doesn't fit very well in the holster.
 

HankT

State Researcher
Joined
Feb 20, 2007
Messages
6,215
Location
Invisible Mode
Of all places to NOT respect our 2nd Amendment rights, gezzz...........


But it just seems odd that a store which relies on people owning firearms, isn't supportive of people owning firearms.

I don't see the validity of these charges of failing to respect 2A rights and/or not supporting firearm owners. Logically, a gun store cannot possibly be anti-2A or anti-gunowner.

These are strawman arguments. Weak.

RA is just trying to solve an operational problem. It ain't anti-2A.
 

Bob Arnold

New member
Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
1
Location
A, A
$35 transfer fee

I don't pay attention to the signs he has on the door because there's so many of them. It's a nice gun store where you can actually examine all the rifles and shotguns without someone standing over your shoulder.

I was, however very dissappointed when I had him handle a recent firearms transfer for me, he charged me $35.....I'm not some guy off the street, I've made several firearms purchases from him over the past year, so it felt like a sucker punch to be hit with such a high fee. There are several other FFL's in the area that charge much less, and a few of them won't charge anything to a customer who has done business with them before.

My last transfer was handled by Jeff at Seacoast Gun and Pawn. Jeff doesn't like handling transfers, but he did one for me since I've been a customer of his and I've made several purchases from him, AND he didn't even charge me! So if you're looking for a good deal on a long gun, I highly recommend him. He has a full rack of shotguns and rifles, and a small case of pistols. He's a great guy.
 

FIVETWOSEVEN

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2011
Messages
17
Location
New Hampshire
I will jump in and say that he told me in person that CCW is okay as long as it stays in the holster along with open carry with the same requirements. He has had people come into the shop with a loaded gun looking to sell it or service it. No loaded guns beyond this point is misleading I agree but it's not what it's intent is.
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,317
Location
Valhalla
I will jump in and say that he told me in person that CCW is okay as long as it stays in the holster along with open carry with the same requirements. He has had people come into the shop with a loaded gun looking to sell it or service it. No loaded guns beyond this point is misleading I agree but it's not what it's intent is.

Numerous shops have a similar rule to the one you have described and they do not find it difficult to clearly state their intentions. He should not either - should say what he means, then everyone will understand.

Do not bring loaded guns in for servicing/repair or for sale/trade.

All loaded handguns shall remain holstered at all times for the safety of customers and staff.
Do not "try out" holsters with a loaded gun.

Loaded long guns are not allowed inside this business.
 

doobie

Regular Member
Joined
May 14, 2008
Messages
233
Location
, ,
I'd say adopt the same policy Riley's Gun Shop has, "Loaded Handguns Must Remain Holstered at all times, No Loaded Rifles or Shotguns allowed in Store", It's short sweet and to the point. The revised version still singles out those who OC and don't have permits. My gun with it's action open doesn't fit very well in the holster.

Agreed, I would not spend money in a shop even with Ernie's revised text. I'd give it the normal tap I give my pistol when I walk by signs saying 'no guns' in malls and the verizon arena.
 
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
4
Location
NH
I don't pay attention to the signs he has on the door because there's so many of them. It's a nice gun store where you can actually examine all the rifles and shotguns without someone standing over your shoulder.

I was, however very dissappointed when I had him handle a recent firearms transfer for me, he charged me $35.....I'm not some guy off the street, I've made several firearms purchases from him over the past year, so it felt like a sucker punch to be hit with such a high fee. There are several other FFL's in the area that charge much less, and a few of them won't charge anything to a customer who has done business with them before.

My last transfer was handled by Jeff at Seacoast Gun and Pawn. Jeff doesn't like handling transfers, but he did one for me since I've been a customer of his and I've made several purchases from him, AND he didn't even charge me! So if you're looking for a good deal on a long gun, I highly recommend him. He has a full rack of shotguns and rifles, and a small case of pistols. He's a great guy.

Mr. Arnold, I checked our records. You were charged $30, not $35. That is our standard transfer fee that we have been charging for 2+ years.
Respectfully,
Ernie Shipman
 
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
4
Location
NH
I don't see the validity of these charges of failing to respect 2A rights and/or not supporting firearm owners. Logically, a gun store cannot possibly be anti-2A or anti-gunowner.

These are strawman arguments. Weak.

RA is just trying to solve an operational problem. It ain't anti-2A.

Thank you Mr. Hank T. I too think it hard for a gun shop owner, Life member of the NRA, member of GONH (Gun Owners of New Hampshire) & a certified NRA Basic Pistol Instructor to be an anti gun anti 2nd amendment person. Straw man arguments.
Sincerely,
Ernie Shipman
 

Gunslinger

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2008
Messages
3,853
Location
Free, Colorado, USA
Your proposed new signage seems reasonable to me. I lived in NH for many years, shot at Wolf Range and purchased several guns at Rileys. My gun club here in COS allows carry, open or concealed, loaded or unloaded, cased or in a holster. No handling is allowed except at the firing line. We have never had a problem--we also sell guns. If a gun is in for service, it must be unloaded when brought to the Gunsmith's window--cased or holstered. All long arms must be cased, and we check non-.22LR or pistol caliber rounds to make sure no armor piercing or penetrator rounds are used. Reasonable regulations, I believe, for any gun store/range.
 
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