flagellum
Regular Member
So first to preface, Open Carry is not present in this story. I just think you guys might be interested.
Last night I went downtown to Freemont Street. I went out and about and had fun with some friends. Since I was drinking, I chose not to drive home and got a ride, leaving my vehicle at the Four Queens parking Garage. Today, I got a ride from a friend and had him drop me off at Freemont so that I could recover my car. It's been quite a while and I lost my ticket, so I pull out some cash to pay the meter people upon my exit. I get to the gate and this is where things go bad.
When I tell them I did not have my ticket they tell me if I do not have it I must pay the maximum amount and that I must produce my drivers license and vehicle registration for them to inspect. I decline. They told me that it is required, and that they would refuse to open the gate unless I provided the information. I refused to cooperate only offer to pay the full amount of which I owed and nothing else. After holding up traffic for quite a while, I backed my car up and pulled into the parking spot.
After talking to three different security officers, I had no luck on convincing them that they did not have the right to hold me on their property against my will. I told them if they wanted to trespass me that was fine I would be more than glad to leave the property. They came back with a rebuttal, that they were not keeping me on their property, but merely my car. Obviously this was not acceptable to me and I told them they should get Metro then because I was staying with my vehicle up until the point that they let myself and my vehicle off their property. (Of course in retrospect, I should have initiated contact with metro were they to be contacted)
After a long wait metro finally arrives. They ask me the situation and I try to explain it the best I can, although I am extremely nervous and flustered. I was asked a rapid series of questions about if I was drunk or high and for what reason I have to not produce personal information if I had done nothing wrong. I was asked if I was carrying a firearm (I was carrying concealed) and I declined to answer.
The discussion I had with the officer was long and drawn out. I do not think he felt I was being reasonable in my conviction to refuse to provide personal information to security staff. Eventually he asked me to identify myself. I asked him if that it was required by law that I must do so. He said that since he was conducting an investigation that I must do so. this didn't sound right to me, but I cooperated with him, and stated my full name, birthdate, place of birth and SSN as he requested of me. Presumably he went back to his cruiser and ran my information to see if I was a criminal or if I had lied to any of his questions.
Nearing the ending of this ordeal he informed me that this was in essence a civil matter, and that if he chose too, he could drive off and that If I wanted my car back from them my only real recourse would be to sue them. While it certainly seemed to me that it was criminal that 4 Queens was detaining my property on their property without my consent, I do not think that anything in criminal law specifically stop them from doing this to me.
At this point I realized I was more or less **** out of luck, and the best I could really do at this point is hope that this officer, as a mediator, could convince 4 Queens security to release my property. I produced my drivers license to the police officer and he told them he had every reason to believe that I was in fact the lawful owner of my car. This satisfied the private security, though unsurprisingly they trespassed me as well, and despite my will against it (at least as far as I know) my full name was provided to 4 Queens security. I payed my fare and drove home.
Here is the questions that I have. Did the Four Queens have the right to detain my personal property? Of course they claim that by pressing the ticket button that I agreed to all the terms and conditions of the facility and than in and of itself is a contract. This is absurd of course, as it is entirely probable that the lawful owner of a car would exit the facility without had pressing the button or even seeing those signs at all. (Example: Let my friend drive my vehicle downtown. I go to pick it up. I would lawfully be trying to reclaim my property without having even engaged in their "Pseudo-contract" by pressing a button.)
While I am pleased with the way the officer handled the situation, I am curious if I was required to produce my personal information during his initial request for it. I wasn't about to argue that right then and there.
Anyhow if you have any feedback I would love to here it. I don't like the behave like an ******* but of course I have a strong interest in defending my rights.
Last night I went downtown to Freemont Street. I went out and about and had fun with some friends. Since I was drinking, I chose not to drive home and got a ride, leaving my vehicle at the Four Queens parking Garage. Today, I got a ride from a friend and had him drop me off at Freemont so that I could recover my car. It's been quite a while and I lost my ticket, so I pull out some cash to pay the meter people upon my exit. I get to the gate and this is where things go bad.
When I tell them I did not have my ticket they tell me if I do not have it I must pay the maximum amount and that I must produce my drivers license and vehicle registration for them to inspect. I decline. They told me that it is required, and that they would refuse to open the gate unless I provided the information. I refused to cooperate only offer to pay the full amount of which I owed and nothing else. After holding up traffic for quite a while, I backed my car up and pulled into the parking spot.
After talking to three different security officers, I had no luck on convincing them that they did not have the right to hold me on their property against my will. I told them if they wanted to trespass me that was fine I would be more than glad to leave the property. They came back with a rebuttal, that they were not keeping me on their property, but merely my car. Obviously this was not acceptable to me and I told them they should get Metro then because I was staying with my vehicle up until the point that they let myself and my vehicle off their property. (Of course in retrospect, I should have initiated contact with metro were they to be contacted)
After a long wait metro finally arrives. They ask me the situation and I try to explain it the best I can, although I am extremely nervous and flustered. I was asked a rapid series of questions about if I was drunk or high and for what reason I have to not produce personal information if I had done nothing wrong. I was asked if I was carrying a firearm (I was carrying concealed) and I declined to answer.
The discussion I had with the officer was long and drawn out. I do not think he felt I was being reasonable in my conviction to refuse to provide personal information to security staff. Eventually he asked me to identify myself. I asked him if that it was required by law that I must do so. He said that since he was conducting an investigation that I must do so. this didn't sound right to me, but I cooperated with him, and stated my full name, birthdate, place of birth and SSN as he requested of me. Presumably he went back to his cruiser and ran my information to see if I was a criminal or if I had lied to any of his questions.
Nearing the ending of this ordeal he informed me that this was in essence a civil matter, and that if he chose too, he could drive off and that If I wanted my car back from them my only real recourse would be to sue them. While it certainly seemed to me that it was criminal that 4 Queens was detaining my property on their property without my consent, I do not think that anything in criminal law specifically stop them from doing this to me.
At this point I realized I was more or less **** out of luck, and the best I could really do at this point is hope that this officer, as a mediator, could convince 4 Queens security to release my property. I produced my drivers license to the police officer and he told them he had every reason to believe that I was in fact the lawful owner of my car. This satisfied the private security, though unsurprisingly they trespassed me as well, and despite my will against it (at least as far as I know) my full name was provided to 4 Queens security. I payed my fare and drove home.
Here is the questions that I have. Did the Four Queens have the right to detain my personal property? Of course they claim that by pressing the ticket button that I agreed to all the terms and conditions of the facility and than in and of itself is a contract. This is absurd of course, as it is entirely probable that the lawful owner of a car would exit the facility without had pressing the button or even seeing those signs at all. (Example: Let my friend drive my vehicle downtown. I go to pick it up. I would lawfully be trying to reclaim my property without having even engaged in their "Pseudo-contract" by pressing a button.)
While I am pleased with the way the officer handled the situation, I am curious if I was required to produce my personal information during his initial request for it. I wasn't about to argue that right then and there.
Anyhow if you have any feedback I would love to here it. I don't like the behave like an ******* but of course I have a strong interest in defending my rights.
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