Sorry to continue the necropost...
Badger Johnson said:
It's a bit misleading. They are liable, as I understand it, if they post signs prohibiting firearms IF a criminal/bad guy/perp/predator causes injury or worse, NOT just due to some concealed weapons.
Sort of.
The law doesn't say the bad thing that happens must be due to a bad person trying to harm others. It could be some idiot showing off his "piece" who doesn't know rules #2 & 3, so negligently shoots someone. The company
IS liable if they've posted signs, but not if they allowed carry.
Unfortunately, the law only mentions concealed carry (other than to say that OC is still completely legal). So in theory, until challenged in court, a place could require only cc & it'd be perfectly legal & they would not have liability.
See pg. 13 here:
https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2011/related/acts/35.pdf
175.60 (21)
(b) A person that does not prohibit an individual from carrying a concealed weapon on property that the person owns or occupies is immune from any liability arising from its decision.
(c) An employer that does not prohibit one or more employees from carrying a concealed weapon under sub. (15m) is immune from any liability arising from its decision.
Rich B said:
I think it is pretty clear. You have no added liability if you only adhere to state laws in your establishment.
If you choose to make up your own rules that cut short or circumvent the state laws, you are accepting liability for damages that occur because of that choice.
It's in the law that places are allowed to post "we don't want your kind here" signs. (a.k.a. "criminals welcome")
So businesses that post
are following state law, not making up their own or circumventing the law.
There have been some heated discussions over on the WI board about human/civil rights vs. property rights. Can a law allow anyone to revoke a basic human civil right?
"No, I'd rather not have them in here. Mixing guns and alcohol isn't a good thing," Tony Mueller said.
(Since we're discussing the WI law...) In WI law if you're carrying concealed in a restaurant/bar you're not allowed to drink alcohol. So when some place posts & gives this as an excuse, I try to explain the law. And of course, if someone is going to break the law by cc + ETOH, why would they bother to pay attention to a sign?
Dana1956 said:
I have wrote them back asking them if they are now responsible for the safety of their customers. Because someone on this forum had the foresight (front sight?) to cut and paste that whole article about liabilty, I have been able to back up what I wanted to say.
Unless there's a similar law in your state, it probably won't apply. I'd like to see that common-sense law nationwide, but it will take a long time, & possibly many court cases.
BFDMikeCT said:
has any business owner thought of the fact that they are telling the criminals it is safe to come rob them! "Hi we don't allow legal gun owners here so you criminals have no reason to fear trouble!"
Yep.
Welcome to the fora. Search is your friend.
Yes, some smart business owners have had that exact thought.
IIRC, in MN many places posted when they got their cc law. The smart ones un-posted not too long after, when they realized that posted places were being robbed & un-posted places weren't.
Here in WI, the only store robbery that's been stopped by a LAC (that we know of) happened to be in a store that didn't want guns, but their sign was far from conspicuous.
That must have been why it didn't stop the robber with the shotgun.