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Out of state requires photo copy state issued ID to make repair... Law?

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
I was told I had to send a copy of a state issued ID along with a AR lower back to the manufacturer in order to have it repaired under warranty.
They claim it is an ATF regulation. Can someone link this regulation for me. I have not heard of it.
I just received a firearm a week ago that I sent to a Colorado repair shop that did not require this.
Law or BS?

Thanks
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
All ATF regulations are on the Internet. Can you ask them which one, since they are the one making the claim? You can be nice about it; just tell them it's for your insurance log book or something, and they'll probably [attempt to] provide it, or discover it doesn't exist.

I've personally never heard of it, but haven't been in those situations enough to know all the rules for it.
 
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skidmark

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jan 15, 2007
Messages
10,449
Location
Valhalla
Go ahead and send them a copy of your state-issued ID. Just reduce it to about 10%. Now they have your lower and your ID. What are they going to do, send it back unrepaired?

Or call them up and tell them that it is a violation of state law to make a copy of the ID document. Ask them what to do that does not involve a complaint campaign?

And next time you run into something like this, name names from the beginning. Folks want to know who is flimging the BS or knows the most obscure ATF reg ever heard so far.

stay safe.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
I have mailed one of my guns to a gunsmith and a stock maker and never once had to proved any form of ID.

Might ask what the regulation is so that you can show all your gun owning friends. Be polite share the name of the manufacturer so that the rest of us can choose their competitor and send them a messages explaining how much we would have loved to buy their guns. but ...... you know.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
Got a reply back! HA! They'll never get my business again. This was my 3rd email to them so I can understand what a huge waste of time it must have been. :rolleyes:

Ill be honest. I'm getting tired of your back and forth banter and you're now wasting the time of my staff and myself and you're taking away from others customer service time. You were told our store policy and why it is in place. If you'd like to research ATF guidelines then do it on your time. You can either follow the directions you've been given or you can stop emailing our store.

David M Famiglietti
President
New Frontier Armory
150 E Centennial Parkway
North Las Vegas, NV 89084
www.newfrontierarmory.com
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
That's a local store here with several locations and a very good reputation. Interesting. They are forum sponsors (as am I) of the Nevada Shooters forum: www.nevadashooters.com. They have their own forum there for specific threads about their store.

I posed the question in a generic forum there without naming the store.
 
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davidmcbeth

Banned
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Jan 14, 2012
Messages
16,169
Location
earth's crust
They sound like the TSA, just making up stuff & not being able to cite a reference.

I would not do business with them either.

Keep the Faith.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
That's a local store here with several locations and a very good reputation. Interesting. They are forum sponsors (as am I) of the Nevada Shooters forum: www.nevadashooters.com. They have their own forum there for specific threads about their store.

I posed the question in a generic forum there without naming the store.

Cool. let me know if anything interesting comes up.

I am generally very forgiving and reasonable when it comes to manufacturers and retailers.... but this response was unacceptable.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
6,337
Location
Nevada
One response so far that confirms S&W does not require it for warranty returns.

Come to think of it, I returned a gun to S&W in February and didn't have to do anything but slap on the prepaid shipping label...
 
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papa bear

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2010
Messages
2,224
Location
mayberry, nc
Got a reply back! HA! They'll never get my business again. This was my 3rd email to them so I can understand what a huge waste of time it must have been. :rolleyes:

Ill be honest. I'm getting tired of your back and forth banter and you're now wasting the time of my staff and myself and you're taking away from others customer service time. You were told our store policy and why it is in place. If you'd like to research ATF guidelines then do it on your time. You can either follow the directions you've been given or you can stop emailing our store.

David M Famiglietti
President
New Frontier Armory
150 E Centennial Parkway
North Las Vegas, NV 89084
www.newfrontierarmory.com

TWOSKINS, i hope that you sent one more email telling them to go fornicate themselves and why they will not be getting any of your or anyone you know business
 

pfries

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2012
Messages
182
Location
East Tennessee
The only ATF Regulation I am aware of that even touches this is

THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968
TITLE 18, UNITED STATE CODE, CHAPTER 44

§ 922 Unlawful acts.
(a) It shall be unlawful—
(1) for any person—

(A) except a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, or licensed
dealer, to engage in the business of
importing, manufacturing, or dealing
in firearms, or in the course of such
business to ship, transport, or receive
any firearm in interstate or foreign
commerce; or

(B) except a licensed importer or
licensed manufacturer, to engage in
the business of importing or manufacturing
ammunition, or in the
course of such business, to ship,
transport, or receive any ammunition
in interstate or foreign commerce;

(2) for any importer, manufacturer,
dealer, or collector licensed under the
provisions of this chapter to ship or
transport in interstate or foreign commerce
any firearm to any person other
than a licensed importer, licensed
manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed
collector, except that—

(A) this paragraph and subsection
(b)(3) shall not be held to preclude a
licensed importer, licensed manufacturer,
licensed dealer, or licensed collector
from returning a firearm or
replacement firearm of the same kind
and type to a person from whom it
was received; and this paragraph
shall not be held to preclude an individual
from mailing a firearm owned
in compliance with Federal, State,
and local law to a licensed importer,
licensed manufacturer, licensed
dealer, or licensed collector;
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
TWOSKINS, i hope that you sent one more email telling them to go fornicate themselves and why they will not be getting any of your or anyone you know business
:) For now I have chosen not to reply. My correspondence has been very professional and polite, I want to keep the extreme contrast to their message for now as I tell the story all over the web. The folks at AR15.com have been especially receptive.

The only ATF Regulation I am aware of that even touches this is
THE GUN CONTROL ACT OF 1968
TITLE 18, UNITED STATE CODE, CHAPTER 44


Snipped. Thanks pfries. I saw that too. I've been combing through the ATF website law pdfs for anything I might have missed. What an incredible, convoluted document. Very nicely written to keep people unable to easily understand legal-right from legal-wrong and thus kept in fear of acting unlawfully by accident. Well done ATF.............. where is that give-em'-the-bird emoticon?
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
One response so far that confirms S&W does not require it for warranty returns.

Come to think of it, I returned a gun to S&W in February and didn't have to do anything but slap on the prepaid shipping label...

Hey I checked out that thread. No one seems to think the copy of the ID is required.
The thread over in the New Frontier Armory subforum of AR15.com was getting too much attention I guess.
They deleted everyone's posts except for mine, EDITED my post to make it look like I said something I didn't, then locked the thread!
Pretty shady. Pretty very shady. Needless to say I won't ever be doing business with them again.
 

twoskinsonemanns

Regular Member
Joined
Apr 12, 2012
Messages
2,326
Location
WV
wow that kind of pisses me off.

Yup. To be perfectly honest I was shocked over their response.
Even more surprising is just the general hostility I receive when I question anyone's need for certain personal information they ask for.
This company told me the ATF required I send a photo copy of a State issue ID card in order to have the lower repaired and got very hostile when I questioned it.
But I get the same type of reaction in some-what similar situations everywhere. Such as questions my family's doctor has asked. When I respond "why do you need to know that?" the conversation turns hostile suddenly. Why the heck is that?
 

SFCRetired

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2008
Messages
1,754
Location
Montgomery, Alabama, USA
Yup. To be perfectly honest I was shocked over their response.
Even more surprising is just the general hostility I receive when I question anyone's need for certain personal information they ask for.
This company told me the ATF required I send a photo copy of a State issue ID card in order to have the lower repaired and got very hostile when I questioned it.
But I get the same type of reaction in some-what similar situations everywhere. Such as questions my family's doctor has asked. When I respond "why do you need to know that?" the conversation turns hostile suddenly. Why the heck is that?

The "professionals" react like that because they have come to expect us lesser individuals to respond automatically with the desired information. It upsets them when someone challenges their right to know these things.
 

Freedom1Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 14, 2012
Messages
4,463
Location
Greater Eastside Washington
Well how can they require you to have a government issued ID when I cannot find anything in any constitution granting the government the authority to identify anyone by means of a government issued ID.

Now heading a little bit off topic to explain that statement.

The laws in this country prohibit or require certain actions and if what you are doing is not prohibited or required then you are free to do or not do what you want.

The constitutions of the states are limiting documents. If it is not spelled out in the constitution of that state that the state has a power/authority to do something, then the state does not have the power/authority to do it. I am not saying that they follow their constitution just saying how it is supposed to be. That is why you often find the power to create roadways, collect taxes, and a whole host of other activities listed in a state constitution. So if issuing a state/government ID is NOT listed as a power granted to a state then the state has not authority to issue an ID of any sort. The closest to that would be some form of a tax stamp to engage in such activities that you need the state's permission to engage in (commercial driver license or a state CPL). EVEN THEN that could never require the confirmation of an identity. If it's your picture is on the tax card then you've paid the tax that permits you to engage in the listed activity(ies). Even if you don't have a photo on the tax stamp it would be incumbent on the state to PROVE that you did not pay that tax.
 
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