Alabama Senate votes to allow church to form police dept.

[OC for ME]

[FONT=&quot]MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) - The Alabama Senate has voted to allow a church to form its own police force.

[/FONT]http://www.wbrc.com/story/35126003/alabama-senate-oks-church-police-bill

https://briarwood.org

Interesting premise. Not relying upon local cops for security...hmm.

 

[Grapeshot]

--snipped-- that's above their pay grade.

......above their pray grade.

 

[SFCRetired]

When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Are we going to have mutawa such as Saudi Arabia, and many other Islamic countries, has?"

My church has a need for security, yes. Does it need POST-certified security with the power to arrest? NO! We do have people who do very well in defusing any threatening situation. I don't know, nor do I want to know, if any of them are armed.

 

[countryclubjoe]

" Guardian Angels".. Perhaps!..

It is indeed the responsibility of parents to protect their progeny, said protection does indeed not end at the church doors.. Evil lurks in the most sacred of places.. Scum bags no not the meaning of " Sacrosanct"...

We as Parents, have a sacred duty to our Creator, to protect what he has given, said protection does not end at home, school or place of worship.

" Victory today triumphs over revenge tomorrow".. (CCJ)

My .02
Regards
CCJ

 

[KBCraig]

When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Are we going to have mutawa such as Saudi Arabia, and many other Islamic countries, has?"

I had a similar thought: it was that the people who cheered for this are likely to also Chicken-Little about Sharia law being enforced in America.

On the plus side, Alabama doesn't ban church carry or impose ridiculous requirements, like many Southern states do.

 

[SFCRetired]

snip//I had a similar thought: it was that the people who cheered for this are likely to also Chicken-Little about Sharia law being enforced in America.//

There are those who profess to be Christian who would, if not severely checked, institute a Christianity-based Sharia Law with parts taken from both the Old and New Testaments. That idea is, to me, almost as frightening as Islamic-based Sharia Law.

 

[deepdiver]

......above their pray grade.

Nice. Very nice, Grapeshot!

The devil is going to be in the details on this matter. The article was pretty vague. Are they creating a "police force" like campus security many places where they only have authority on campus? Or are they going to be actual sworn law officers and have the same authority as city/state LEO just with the campus as their jurisdiction but able to step off campus into the city with the same authority as city LEO? If this is a private law enforcement entity with equal power to a gov't LEO but answerable to that church (little "c" not big "C") rather than civilian authority it is a horrid and dangerous idea.

 

[countryclubjoe]

Nice. Very nice, Grapeshot!

The devil is going to be in the details on this matter. The article was pretty vague. Are they creating a "police force" like campus security many places where they only have authority on campus? Or are they going to be actual sworn law officers and have the same authority as city/state LEO just with the campus as their jurisdiction but able to step off campus into the city with the same authority as city LEO? If this is a private law enforcement entity with equal power to a gov't LEO but answerable to that church (little "c" not big "C") rather than civilian authority it is a horrid and dangerous idea.

It seems only Constitutional correct that they would indeed hire their own private security people, to enforce rules and protect the members..
The government can in no way be part of said policing, separation of state and church comes to mind.. However a very interesting concept.

My .02
Regards
CCJ

 

[efriday]

Police sponsored by private groups?

One is reminded of the sworn LEOs sponsored by the ASPCA, having full powers of arrest and acting like any other government police agency. Could the Baptist Ladies Legion for Decency or the Jewish Anti Defemation League spnsor their own police to enforce US Code ?
How about the Florida Anti Open Carry Neighborhood Watch ?

 

[DeSchaine]

From the limited amount of information available so far, I think it would be a safe bet that this "church police force" would act more like that of a university/college. All the power and authority of a normal police dept., but with a very limited jurisdictional area.

And as far as the farce of so-called "separation of state and church" is concerned... Article 1, section 3 of the Alabama Constitution states:

That no religion shall be established by law; that no preference shall be given by law to any religious sect, society, denomination, or mode of worship; that no one shall be compelled by law to attend any place of worship; nor to pay any tithes, taxes, or other rate for building or repairing any place of worship, or for maintaining any minister or ministry; that no religious test shall be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under this state; and that the civil rights, privileges, and capacities of any citizen shall not be in any manner affected by his religious principles.

(relevant parts bolded by me)

I don't see an issue with it as long as the funding does not come from taxpayers, that any places of religion with comparable size are not given a different answer, and that any and all such agencies are held to the exact same standard.

 

[countryclubjoe]

From the limited amount of information available so far, I think it would be a safe bet that this "church police force" would act more like that of a university/college. All the power and authority of a normal police dept., but with a very limited jurisdictional area.

And as far as the farce of so-called "separation of state and church" is concerned... Article 1, section 3 of the Alabama Constitution states:

(relevant parts bolded by me)

I don't see an issue with it as long as the funding does not come from taxpayers, that any places of religion with comparable size are not given a different answer, and that any and all such agencies are held to the exact same standard.

Great post, clears up some issues that i was pondering.. However I and many here probably don't feel that the first amendment is a farce..

It seems likely that the church would hire their own security folks, paid for by the Church members..

My .02
CCJ

 

[SFCRetired]

Update

This is another of the bills which died at the close of the regular legislative session Friday, May 19.

 

[solus]

This is another of the bills which died at the close of the regular legislative session Friday, May 19.

thanks SFC, i was truly concerned with the precedence this might set for NC who had rumblings of discussion after the SC church debacle.

ipse

 

[SFCRetired]

thanks SFC, i was truly concerned with the precedence this might set for NC who had rumblings of discussion after the SC church debacle.

ipse

What concerned me was the thought that "church police" could, especially here in the Bible Belt, rapidly turn into "religious police" a/k/a/ "mutawa", such as are found in Saudi Arabia. That is one bill I was not sorry to see die in the House.

 

[solus]

What concerned me was the thought that "church police" could, especially here in the Bible Belt, rapidly turn into "religious police" a/k/a/ "mutawa", such as are found in Saudi Arabia. That is one bill I was not sorry to see die in the House.

SFC, we already have the religious police alive and well in this country in the form of our established 'blue' laws where businesses can't be open, alcohol can not be sold, and now this popped up on our radar screen this past week...


Pastors throughout Wake County are concerned some graduation dates set by the Wake County Public School system are interfering with the Sabbath.


“I was appalled thinking that our public schools would schedule graduation service something that significant during worship hours for most churches,” Rev. Dr. William T. Newkirk said, pastor at Oak City Baptist Church in Raleigh. http://wncn.com/2017/05/18/pastors-complain-after-wake-schools-schedules-graduations-on-sundays/

they do not need firearms in this country...they have social, mainstream medium to inflict their religious preferences on the populaces.

ipse

 

[SFCRetired]

There are already Mutawa functioning in the US. General Presidency of Religious Affairs and Welfare of the Ummah - GPRAWU - patrols Islamic communities in the United States enforcing shariah. Here, from Minneapolis.

http://www.startribune.com/minneapo...patrolling-in-cedar-riverside-area/419321224/

That should have the brakes put on immediately. The Supreme Law of the United States is our Constitution. All other laws must be in compliance with the Constitution. Those that are not, such as Sharia, have no place in this country.

 

[KBCraig]

Pastors throughout Wake County are concerned some graduation dates set by the Wake County Public School system are interfering with the Sabbath.

“I was appalled thinking that our public schools would schedule graduation service something that significant during worship hours for most churches,” Rev. Dr. William T. Newkirk said, pastor at Oak City Baptist Church in Raleigh. http://wncn.com/2017/05/18/pastors-complain-after-wake-schools-schedules-graduations-on-sundays/

Sunday is not the Sabbath, and never has been, even in the Christian church.

 

[SFCRetired]

Bless you. Saturday is the Sabbath. Sunday is The Lord's Day, His Ressurection Day celebrated.

Revelation 1:10 I [His servant John] was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

I had a pastor many years ago, something of a cynic, who stated that passage should read that John was into the "spirits". Same pastor also wondered aloud if perhaps John had found a source for marijuana.
Wasn't long before I found another church.

 

[WalkingWolf]

When I read this story, the first thing that popped into my mind was, "Are we going to have mutawa such as Saudi Arabia, and many other Islamic countries, has?"

My church has a need for security, yes. Does it need POST-certified security with the power to arrest? NO! We do have people who do very well in defusing any threatening situation. I don't know, nor do I want to know, if any of them are armed.

My thoughts also, what happens when a not so respected 'religion' decides they want police. The potential for abuse is high.

 

[color of law]

As a member of a particular church what particular law, God's law that is, could I be arrested for? I guess separation of church and state is in the eye of the beholder.