America's one choice in 2016.................

[OC for ME]

60 to 70 percent of the citizenry did not want Obamacare...so much for the political elites following culture.

The Kelo decision stands the final nail in the coffin that is private property rights guaranteed in the federal constitution. The peaceful exercise of our RKBAs is outlawed in every state that requires a "affirmative defense" (permit. Thus there is no RKBAs in any one of those states.

Terry v. Ohio is the foundation upon which "shall not be infringed" is routinely ignored by the state.

two cops get shot in Ferguson and three citizens are raided by a SWAT, arrested, questioned, house ransacked, and then released without any charges or explanations. This is the norm for LE and as such 2016 will not correct these egregious and unjustified infringements of our individual rights.

America's choice in 2016, whatever that may be, will have nothing to do with restoring liberty, but the continuation of the soft tyranny that is good intentions.

 

[WalkingWolf]

60 to 70 percent of the citizenry did not want Obamacare...so much for the political elites following culture.

The Kelo decision stands the final nail in the coffin that is private property rights guaranteed in the federal constitution. The peaceful exercise of our RKBAs is outlawed in every state that requires a "affirmative defense" (permit. Thus there is no RKBAs in any one of those states.

Terry v. Ohio is the foundation upon which "shall not be infringed" is routinely ignored by the state.

two cops get shot in Ferguson and three citizens are raided by a SWAT, arrested, questioned, house ransacked, and then released without any charges or explanations. This is the norm for LE and as such 2016 will not correct these egregious and unjustified infringements of our individual rights.

America's choice in 2016, whatever that may be, will have nothing to do with restoring liberty, but the continuation of the soft tyranny that is good intentions.

+1

 

[utbagpiper]

60 to 70 percent of the citizenry did not want Obamacare...so much for the political elites following culture.

You mistake political polls for culture. What percentage of Americans did want SOME kind of change in healthcare? Much as I hate Obamacare, some portion of those opposed to it, opposed it because it didn't go far enough toward the socialized (I mean "single payer") plan they wanted.

The peaceful exercise of our RKBAs is outlawed in every state that requires a "affirmative defense" (permit. Thus there is no RKBAs in any one of those states.

That number has decreased from 49 (for both OC and discrete) just 10 years ago, to 45 today, with a half a dozen or so more States seriously considering repealing laws against carrying a firearm without a permit. My own legislature has just passed a bill removing the legal prohibition on carry a concealed weapon without a permit, except for firearms, which still require a permit. It is another, in a long and continuing series of steps in the right direction both culturally and legally the last 25 years.

Looking just at OC, this forum reports 30 States that do not require a permit to carry. Another 14 require a permit, but that permit is shall issue in many cases. Only 6 states prohibit open carry.

Congress is not only terrified to push any new overt restrictions on our RKBA, but just responded to public outrage such that the BATFE has been compelled to back away from their proposed bullet ban. Yes, we all know that is a temporary, strategic retreat. But a retreat nonetheless.

Arguably the most anti-gun president in our history had no choice but to sign a bill that contained provisions mandating that the NPS follow State laws in terms of firearms possession in all areas except the interior of federal buildings themselves. His efforts to end the sale of spent military brass to the private, commercial reloading market had to be withdrawn.

America's choice in 2016, whatever that may be, will have nothing to do with restoring liberty, but the continuation of the soft tyranny that is good intentions.

Then what do you propose? What are you doing here if you don't believe the situation can be improved?

We have work left to do. We always will. Eternal vigilance and liberty.

But over the last 10 years, what ground have we lost on RKBA / OC? Specifics please.

Charles

 

[Logan 5]

After reading 2 or 3 pages I decided to not read any more and comment specifically on the OP....

DO NOT VOTE!

The more American's that remove their consent from a completely broken and flawed system the better. If Americans can come together and ensure voter turnout is below 50% in 2016. Nothing "elected" from city council to "president" will be legitimate.

DO NOT VOTE!

Whether it's Hilary or Jeb, a MINORITY of Americans will have put them in their throne of power. If this NON-violent means of defiance is ignored, one other option is left.


In 2016.....

DO NOT VOTE! and encourage all you know to do the same.

Well, you do not understand the process in the American voting system. Much to your disadvantage. The POTUS is an electoral vote. You and I mean nothing to the vote count. It's the electoral college that does. The people we select to represent our wishes. It does not always play out like we want, sadly. But in you withholding your vote, you help nothing BUT the guys we do not want in office.

So when you start talking about withholding the vote, you start talking about an action that clearly would have a deleterious effect on the country we want to preserve. An action I would expect from only socialists, communists and anarchists.

 

[solus]

uh, er, not sure how to address this but, logan 5 you do know the OP has been banned from the forum?

just saying, ya know...

and i know you gave your bestest, mostest, well thought out response ever, huh!

ipse

 

[sudden valley gunner]

After reading 2 or 3 pages I decided to not read any more and comment specifically on the OP....



Well, you do not understand the process in the American voting system. Much to your disadvantage. The POTUS is an electoral vote. You and I mean nothing to the vote count. It's the electoral college that does. The people we select to represent our wishes. It does not always play out like we want, sadly. But in you withholding your vote, you help nothing BUT the guys we do not want in office.

So when you start talking about withholding the vote, you start talking about an action that clearly would have a deleterious effect on the country we want to preserve. An action I would expect from only socialists, communists and anarchists.

What if no one showed up to vote? Wouldn't the current rigged system be apparent?

I won't vote two major party. So does my vote not count? If not why cast it anyway?

Why are my liberties up for vote at all?

 

[solus]

What if no one showed up to vote? Wouldn't the current rigged system be apparent?

I won't vote two major party. So does my vote not count? If not why cast it anyway?

Why are my liberties up for vote at all?

quote Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.

I feel that it is too directly bound to its own anguish to be anything other than a cry of negation, carrying within itself the seeds of its own destruction. However, to get to the meat of the matter, I will come right to the point, and take note of the fact that the heart of the issue in the final analysis escapes me. unquote

this individuals campaign slogans caused me to vote for him by writing in his name !!

ipse

 

[sudden valley gunner]

quote Just a common, ordinary, simple savior of America's destiny.

I feel that it is too directly bound to its own anguish to be anything other than a cry of negation, carrying within itself the seeds of its own destruction. However, to get to the meat of the matter, I will come right to the point, and take note of the fact that the heart of the issue in the final analysis escapes me. unquote

this individuals campaign slogans caused me to vote for him by writing in his name !!

ipse

Wrote in a dogs name over the local long time D-bag republican prosecutor. The only entity I voted for.

 

[utbagpiper]

What if no one showed up to vote?

What if frogs had wings? They wouldn't hit their buts when they jumped. But they don't have wings so they do hit their buts.

People will show up to vote. You can let them win by default, or you can vote for someone better. Maybe even run for office yourself or support someone good.

Why are my liberties up for vote at all?

Because a few millions of your neighbors are not at all convinced what your liberties are.

Occasionally the courts will rule something is a liberty beyond popular vote. We're headed the right direction on RKBA, but not there yet.

Those that show up get to decide.

If you don't intend to show up at the polls, what are you doing here?

Charles

 

[sudden valley gunner]

Missing the point.

 

[Citizen]

Wrote in a dogs name over the local long time D-bag republican prosecutor. The only entity I voted for.

What have you got against dogs?

Poor pooch. You were setting him up to perpetrate government against his "best friend."

Next time, please write in some lower life form on par with politicians, say, for example, the Ebola virus.

 

[sudden valley gunner]

What have you got against dogs?

Poor pooch. You were setting him up to perpetrate government against his "best friend."

Next time, please write in some lower life form on par with politicians, say, for example, the Ebola virus.

LOL....I think you just gave me a knew nick name for the longest running prosecutor in the states......

 

[OC for ME]

"We have to pass it before we can know what's in it." Makes my point. After the 2010 election, a landslide victory for the republican Party by most accounts, we still have Obamacacare. No, political critters don't give a rip about the culture.

Every state that has a permit "affirmative defense" does not recognize our RKBAs. MO is a example of the state recognizes yet the "state" grants local governments to infringe. We are working to correct this via A5. But, our efforts,here in MO to restore liberty, do not invalidate my claim.

Temporary is like second place at a NASCAR race...

If political critters are so gung-ho about restoring liberty then why goes the GFSZ law remain on the books? Why doe the NFA remain on the books? If there are more state critters "restoring" liberty then why have any laws that direct relate to a guns existence on the books at all? Nope, political critters don't give a rip about what we think.

Arguably the most anti-gun president in our history had no choice but to sign a bill that contained provisions mandating that the NPS follow State laws in terms of firearms possession in all areas except the interior of federal buildings themselves. His efforts to end the sale of spent military brass to the private, commercial reloading market had to be withdrawn.

Improvements?

If I am not mistaken, in MO, our efforts to restore liberty took a turn for the worse when a "permit" became a affirmative defense statewide for OCing. Relying upon the good graces of some city hall critters is not a step towards liberty by any stretch of my imagination.

 

[OC for ME]

...

[strike]Arguably the most anti-gun president in our history had no choice but to sign a bill that contained provisions mandating that the NPS follow State laws in terms of firearms possession in all areas except the interior of federal buildings themselves. His efforts to end the sale of spent military brass to the private, commercial reloading market had to be withdrawn.[/strike]

Sorry, forgot to delete this statement from my post.

 

[Grapeshot]

Sorry, forgot to delete this statement from my post.

You can edit your own posts or delete it and repost as you wish.

 

[utbagpiper]

Missing the point.

Yes, Yes you are.

And I appreciate you admitting that because I'd hate to be accused personal sniping for pointing it out to you.

If you were to be out encouraging the gun grabbers not to vote because the system is rigged, I'd consider your strategy to be brilliant. But encouraging gun owners not to vote seems less than productive.

Charles

 

[Logan 5]

uh, er, not sure how to address this but, logan 5 you do know the OP has been banned from the forum?

just saying, ya know...

Yeah, I noticed that, but felt it still needed said to satisfy my evil carnal desires.

Whatever those are.

and i know you gave your bestest, mostest, well thought out response ever, huh!

ipse

No, really my best was when I was trying to convince Grapeshot that I was kidnapped by space aliens. It failed, of course.

What if no one showed up to vote? Wouldn't the current rigged system be apparent?

What if someone declared a war and no one showed up to fight?

I won't vote two major party. So does my vote not count? If not why cast it anyway?

Why are my liberties up for vote at all?

They should never be.

If you were to be out encouraging the gun grabbers not to vote because the system is rigged, I'd consider your strategy to be brilliant. But encouraging gun owners not to vote seems less than productive.

Charles

If a person encourages people, outside of humor, to not vote, then they are attacking the same Constitution that they allegedly want preserved. Why fight for something you want to destroy?

If anything we should encourage EVERYONE to not only vote, but to vote an educated vote.

I found that when I'm voting, even if I am voting for the same person as the next guy, my reasoning is different. At the last election I was canvassing at, I found so many people really don't care about America. You see when I vote, I vote for who I feel is the best person to do the job for America. A lot of those folks are part of the "me complex". Me me me me me me ME! Not America, not their neighbor's rights or their children's friends rights, but them. And that is hard. Because really Charles, if I was more concerned about voting for someone that would benefit me and not my country, I might end up voting democrat or some other party. But I want to vote for someone that will serve America for America's best interests, with the hope that what is good for America is good for me. Freedom, after all, being the biggest payback. Sadly that has also meant NOT voting GOP in the past, a few times.

People are just so greedy about it any more. So long as they have their pizza, beer, HBO, football and some poontang to snuggle with, I seriously doubt if Obama could pull the FEMA/Concentration Camp stunt and anyone would care (until they are on the train). Look at all the videos of cops beating people for no reason. Does anyone care, yet? Sure doesn't look like it.

 

[utbagpiper]

If anything we should encourage EVERYONE to not only vote, but to vote an educated vote.

Respectfully, you have that backwards.

I have to respect every adult citizen's legal right to vote. But I don't encourage anyone to vote until after they have gained education and information on our system of government, the issues, and the candidates.

I'm under no obligation to encourage people to cast un- or ill-informed votes. We don't need randomness in our electoral process. We don't need people voting based on name recognition or who had the best looking mailers or most creative TV commercials.

If someone asks me for advice on whom to vote for, I give them my advice. If they are willing to trust my judgement and effectively give me their vote, I'll take it.

Charles

 

[sudden valley gunner]

What if someone declared a war and no one showed up to fight?

See you get the point, thank you. And that is part of my point. Wouldn't that be awesome if no one showed up for wars and just left the other people alone?

They should never be.

Exactly, which they are in the current voting system and by the major two parties.

If a person encourages people, outside of humor, to not vote, then they are attacking the same Constitution that they allegedly want preserved. Why fight for something you want to destroy?

I disagree, no where does it state the restrictions in the constitution only apply to property owners (those allowed to vote at the time). Not voting and isn't attacking the constitution its withdrawing consent of being ruled or engaging in the rituals of the state.

If anything we should encourage EVERYONE to not only vote, but to vote an educated vote.

Simply wont endorse evil. Doesn't mean I will never vote. My education has led me to know how destroyed the constitution is and how most of the candidates are more harmful than good.

I found that when I'm voting, even if I am voting for the same person as the next guy, my reasoning is different. At the last election I was canvassing at, I found so many people really don't care about America. You see when I vote, I vote for who I feel is the best person to do the job for America. A lot of those folks are part of the "me complex". Me me me me me me ME! Not America, not their neighbor's rights or their children's friends rights, but them. And that is hard. Because really Charles, if I was more concerned about voting for someone that would benefit me and not my country, I might end up voting democrat or some other party. But I want to vote for someone that will serve America for America's best interests, with the hope that what is good for America is good for me. Freedom, after all, being the biggest payback. Sadly that has also meant NOT voting GOP in the past, a few times.

If you look at the history of GOP it had its start as a big government, anti constitution, subsidy special interest, central bank, high tarriffs, mercantilist party. Then around Wilsons time the other party passed them by does not mean the GOP is the "better" party.

People are just so greedy about it any more. So long as they have their pizza, beer, HBO, football and some poontang to snuggle with, I seriously doubt if Obama could pull the FEMA/Concentration Camp stunt and anyone would care (until they are on the train). Look at all the videos of cops beating people for no reason. Does anyone care, yet? Sure doesn't look like it.

People should be left alone to have those things. A vote shouldn't matter.

Thank you for the discussion, and not the misrepresentation of what someone said as an argument.

 

[OC for ME]

You can edit your own posts or delete it and repost as you wish.

No, I cannot. I guess one or members did not take too kindly to me deleting my posts, all of them, some time ago and lodged a complaint with management. Thus, the below.

• You may post new threads
• You may post replies
• You may post attachments
• You may not edit your posts

From the bottom of the webpage after I login.

Not sure what forum rule(s) I violated, awhile ago by deleting my posts, but then again my posts are not seemingly my posts. See Rule 1, 2, and 17. If i were permitted to edit my posts I would, but, I cannot and must do with what is available to me.