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TN Open Carry Report

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Burgess Falls State Park: starting down at the top of the largest falls I met a ranger and an assistant walking up on the narrow stairway. The ranger seemed to be looking for me because once he saw me his eyes never left me. Once he looked down at my Glock he stopped (too close, tactically, it felt), unsnapped and placed his hand on his weapon, stopping me. He said "I'd like to see your ID and permit." I replied "as I would expect you to (or something else as stupid), drew my ID wallet that had them both in windows and presented it. He gave a cursory glance, thanked me by name and returned it. And that was all the longer it lasted.

you have to have a permit in KY to OC ?[/QUOTE]

In KY you do not, but this is in the Tennessee sub-forum about an incident occurring in Tennessee where a permit is required to OC.
http://tn.gov/environment/parks/BurgessFalls/
http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html
 

Q-Tip

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2010
Messages
102
Location
Mississippi/Tennessee
OCed at Radnor lake the other day (Don't worry! It was holstered). I also had on a jacket and my Camelbak. A passerby asked if I had any bourbon in there, and I assume me meant the Camelbak. No other comments or bug eyes.

Had my first comment today. I was at a friends house, and I was jogging up the stairs a friend of his who was also there noticed it and said "He has a gun!??" I peeked my head back around the corner and said "Yeah, Happy (the plastic snowman) gets kinda agressive sometimes."
 

WCrawford

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
you have to have a permit in KY to OC ?

In KY you do not, but this is in the Tennessee sub-forum about an incident occurring in Tennessee where a permit is required to OC.
http://tn.gov/environment/parks/BurgessFalls/
http://www.opencarry.org/opencarry.html[/QUOTE]

With all the exemptions in both Federal and Tennessee law about who can carry, and with the fact that almost no open carrier is known to purposefully break laws, and considering the case law I pose this question: Does the ranger really have RAS that there was a crime about to happen, happening, or already have happened?

How does the ranger reasonably articulate suspicion that the carrier is not one of the many exempted people? Since open carriers are documented as being amongst the most law abiding citizens (just look at all the dismissed criminal/civil cases), how can the ranger reasonably articulate the suspicion that the carrier doesn't have a license?

EDIT: The above questions assume that the ranger would not lie.
 
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OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
Since it is unlawful in TN to carry a weapon the ranger had visual proof that a crime had occurred. By demanding to see a permit he was investigating a crime (thank you, Tennessee law).

Grapeshot, I think the reason the ranger unsnapped and gripped his weapon was probably a combination of training and the awkwardness of the location. Or maybe he was demonstrating "proper procedure" to the lad. Carrying in TN state parks still kinda new, too.

I know there's not many here that feel the same as I do when I say I felt this was a positive encounter.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
Since it is unlawful in TN to carry a weapon the ranger had visual proof that a crime had occurred. By demanding to see a permit he was investigating a crime (thank you, Tennessee law).

Grapeshot, I think the reason the ranger unsnapped and gripped his weapon was probably a combination of training and the awkwardness of the location. Or maybe he was demonstrating "proper procedure" to the lad. Carrying in TN state parks still kinda new, too.

I know there's not many here that feel the same as I do when I say I felt this was a positive encounter.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk

I understand that you did what was comfortable for you - no problem with that.

Still maintain that seeing a properly holstered gun is not RAS of a crime any more than seeing you in a vehicle is RAS of a crime i.e. presumed possibly no license. Both are witch hunts IMO.

Had the situation been reversed, wherein you unsnapped your holster and gripped your handgun would that have been OK? Of course not - the LEO's action were no less out of line in threatening use of deadly force when he preformed a terry stop under color of law. There was simply no need for deadly force to be introduced on any level.
 

ecocks

Regular Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2009
Messages
1,040
Location
USA
I'm not surprised he placed his hand on his gun. I would have been a little taken aback by his unsnapping.

All in all it sounds like a fair encounter. Like you I would have been reasonably obliging with producing ID, particularly if he was smiling and pleasant in his demeanor. Probably I would have asked if there was a problem as I produced it though.
 

FTG-05

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
441
Location
TN
Since it is unlawful in TN to carry a weapon - without a permit - the ranger had no visual proof that a crime had occurred. By demanding to see a permit he was not out of line, but putting his hand on his weapon was.

[snip]

Fixed it for you.

Like the example above, driving a car requires a permit/license; but driving a car does not provide in and of itself proof that the person driving is illegal.
 
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OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
I understand that you did what was comfortable for you - no problem with that.

Thanks Grape, but I see it as less as a comfort thing and more as a following-the-rules thing. I write this matter-of-factly with no sarcasm.

Still maintain that seeing a properly holstered gun is not RAS of a crime any more than seeing you in a vehicle is RAS of a crime.

In Tennessee it is a crime. The state looks at it differently than most other states. The permit is called a "defense", which I read that it is still a crime but the permit makes it "okay". In deciding to open carry I am doing so understanding that I can be challenged, so I am not offended that it happened.

From what I've been able to tell the police here generally do not take as strict a view as letter of the law.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk
 

OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
I'm not surprised he placed his hand on his gun. I would have been a little taken aback by his unsnapping.

You can prepare for such an encounter but experiencing it is a touch stressful.

All in all it sounds like a fair encounter. Like you I would have been reasonably obliging with producing ID, particularly if he was smiling and pleasant in his demeanor. Probably I would have asked if there was a problem as I produced it though.

He was professional in his demeanor and gave an appreciative nod and slight grin at the conclusion. Permit was produced because it was required, and detention with handcuffs and disarming were the only alternatives :)

I see the encounter as proper and an example of how an encounter should go. If Tennessee law was different I would be in agreement with Grapeshot.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk
 

Grapeshot

Legendary Warrior
Joined
May 21, 2006
Messages
35,331
Location
Valhalla
You can prepare for such an encounter but experiencing it is a touch stressful.



He was professional in his demeanor and gave an appreciative nod and slight grin at the conclusion. Permit was produced because it was required, and detention with handcuffs and disarming were the only alternatives :)

I see the encounter as proper and an example of how an encounter should go. If Tennessee law was different I would be in agreement with Grapeshot.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk

Still leaves me banging my head - I'd stop but it feels so good. :rolleyes:

Like the man says, if you don't like the law get it changed. Only I don't live there so can't do that. More head banging.:banghead:

You all take care now, ya hear.
 

OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
Still leaves me banging my head - I'd stop but it feels so good. :rolleyes:

Like the man says, if you don't like the law get it changed. Only I don't live there so can't do that. More head banging.:banghead:

You all take care now, ya hear.

A law I would like to see changed as well.

I'm sorry I'm contributing to your new headache. I'll send you some bactine when you're done thumpin' your noggin!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk
 

WCrawford

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
Thanks Grape, but I see it as less as a comfort thing and more as a following-the-rules thing. I write this matter-of-factly with no sarcasm.



In Tennessee it is a crime. The state looks at it differently than most other states. The permit is called a "defense", which I read that it is still a crime but the permit makes it "okay". In deciding to open carry I am doing so understanding that I can be challenged, so I am not offended that it happened.

From what I've been able to tell the police here generally do not take as strict a view as letter of the law.


Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S using Tapatalk

According to Tennessee Law the possession of a firearm in your home, business, or premises is a "defense" to the unlawful carry of a firearm as well.
39-17-1308. Defenses to unlawful possession or carrying of a weapon.

(a) It is a defense to the application of § 39-17-1307 if the possession or carrying was:

(3) At the person's:

(A) Place of residence;

(B) Place of business; or

(C) Premises;

So then would it be acceptable to you for a police officer to disarm a homeowner and force them to prove that they are at their place of residence by providing a deed, rental agreement or other documentation?
 

SovereignAxe

Regular Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
795
Location
Elizabethton, TN
According to Tennessee Law the possession of a firearm in your home, business, or premises is a "defense" to the unlawful carry of a firearm as well.


So then would it be acceptable to you for a police officer to disarm a homeowner and force them to prove that they are at their place of residence by providing a deed, rental agreement or other documentation?

Don't come in here with semantics and logic! Laws don't work on logic! They work on real things like gut, hysteria and kneejerk reactions! And don't forget about double standards.
 

Nascar24Glock

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2011
Messages
252
Location
Johnson City, TN
OC'd to Kroger and Walmart today. Another normal shopping experience.

I OC'ed at the Wal-Mart in Johnson City today (for that matter, first time I've ever OC'ed). Like you said, it was a completely normal shopping experience. As far as I could tell, no one was giving me the "stink eye" or anything else. Like the other guy said, either: (A) OC is not as big a deal around here as people make it out to be, or (B) people's situational awareness sucks.
 

OngoingFreedom

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2009
Messages
58
Location
Middle TN
Painturo's and Sumner Gun & Supply in Gallatin for my middle son's birthday. No issues, and rock'n'roll fun on the rental FN PS90.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
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WCrawford

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
592
Location
Nashville, Tennessee, United States
I OC'ed at the Wal-Mart in Johnson City today (for that matter, first time I've ever OC'ed). Like you said, it was a completely normal shopping experience. As far as I could tell, no one was giving me the "stink eye" or anything else. Like the other guy said, either: (A) OC is not as big a deal around here as people make it out to be, or (B) people's situational awareness sucks.

A & B are the right answers.

My last open carry was on Monday January the 30th. I went to the Famous Dave's in Smyrna with my pregnant fiance for lunch (about 2pm ish). Not too many people there at that time but neither the hostess nor the waitress commented on my Glock. Afterwords we went grocery shopping at a Super Walmart on Harding. Again, not comments from anyone. Left there about 5:30 pm and went home, stopped to pick up smokes at a MapCo. Still no comments.


That seems to be the norm in the Nashville and surrounding areas.
 
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