Open Carry

[buketdude]

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cops are terrible at legal advice....I have been told by a Hartford cop that i was breaking the law for "drinking alcohol as a passenger in a motor vehicle".....i told him that was "non-sense" and i would not pour it out. He then tried to trick me by telling me to step out the vehicle to which i left the bottle of whiskey in the car (there is a local ordinance about open alcohol on public streets)....i told him (politely) to please not touch my alcohol as i was over 21 and it is not against the law to have an open bottle of alcohol in a car in this state....he did a sobriety test on the driver..talked to some superior of his and let us go without saying a word to me.....

 

[Mike]

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buketdude wrote:

cops are terrible at legal advice....I have been told by a Hartford cop that i was breaking the law for "drinking alcohol as a passenger in a motor vehicle".....i told him that was "non-sense" and i would not pour it out. He then tried to trick me by telling me to step out the vehicle to which i left the bottle of whiskey in the car (there is a local ordinance about open alcohol on public streets)....i told him (politely) to please not touch my alcohol as i was over 21 and it is not against the law to have an open bottle of alcohol in a car in this state....he did a sobriety test on the driver..talked to some superior of his and let us go without saying a word to me.....

Good analogy. It is a myth in Virginia that passengers cannot drink while in a vehicle - completely untrue.

 

[LKB3rd]

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Never ask a police officer for legal opinions - what would you expect him to say - that open carry is legal? Come on - comments like that just get police officers in trouble or fired.

I was asking him because I wanted to see if he knew the laws. I wasn't asking him for legal advice. If I have to defend every post I make from your negative comments, we are going to waste a lot of time here.

edited with quote

 

[buketdude]

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LKB3rd wrote:

I was asking him because I wanted to see if he knew the laws. I wasn't asking him for legal advice. If I have to defend every post I make from your negative comments, we are going to waste a lot of time here.

i meant in no way to offend you..i have asked multiple police in casual conversation in CT there opinion on open carry and what they would do and from some of their answers i question if they would arrest even for conceal carrying..haha....I believe there are lots of laws they don't know....4-5 years ago I witnessed an officer in Hartford tell a woman that "she needed to wear a helmet if she was going to be a passenger on a motorcycle.".....she then said she would go find one and i told her unless you are 16 or 17, you don't need to wear a helmet...she then got on and the dude riding took off and a cop went after them..i have no idea what happened but i would have been really pissed....

 

[LKB3rd]

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That was directed toward Mike. As I typed it, the other posts came up. I should have quoted him to make that clear.

 

[Jared]

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Mike wrote:

Mere open carry does not comport with the breach of peace statute you set forth above, and the charge, if filed, would go away quickly, and a civil law suit could then be filed for damages.

Why are these CT people so afraid of their shadows?

I have to disagree with you on this Mike, it isn't that people are so afraid of their shadows in CT, it's just that having your permit suspended for a year and fighting to get it back isn't worth it.

I think open carry could be better pushed in CT by sending a certified letter to the police chief and city attorney in your town and discussing the issue that way. This way your covered and you can try to address it's legality. If then you don't get the answer you want to hear, you could always bring up 42 USC 1983 and set an open carry date and explain that any adverse action WILL result in a lawsuit.

As I'm sure you know, it's not that easy to get $$$ in a 1983 lawsuit. Many people (I'm guilty of this as well)around this site throw it around like it's as easy as turning on the TV.

If this was so easy, wouldn't someone want to prove a point and Open carry in CT, RI (if passing though, any state or territories CCW permit is valid for CCW or OC), Philadelphia, East Chicago, Massachusettes, Detroit, and even open carry on Virginia universitiy property (not for VCU and not for any students).

Someone could be a millionare by doing an OC tour, they get arrested, and they sue, and $$$$.

It would be a sure way to stand up for your rights and slap authoritarians in the face and collect $$$ but no one does it.... because it's not that easy.

 

[srage10]

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I happen to make a comment about the OC policy in CT on another forum where the PA soccer mom situation came up. Someone was intrigued by my comment that CT is an OC state with the whole stupid Breach of Peace thing, so they did some calling and the answers they got below.

I think it's safe to say this is why everyone is so confused about this topic in this state. Granted I agree with others that asking the police their opinion is not the best thing to do but to be honest who are regular citizens going to ask?

Well, thing is: as of 7am this morning, I've called four different police stations in four different towns. Two were state police barracks. Only one of them says you need a separate permit, but all of officers in charge say that it is -without a doubt- illegal in the state of CT to open carry and you will lose your permit if you do so. Not that I blindly trust this, but if it's miss information, it's starting to piss me off.

I spent the day making a LOT of phone calls. Here's the gist I came up with by putting all the information together (the large "unraveling" information coming from the Department of Special Licensing and Fire Arms Division in Middletown): There are laws in CT against BRANDISHING A WEAPON. If you are carrying a firearm and it is noticeable in any way (be it open carry or slightly peeping out of your hiding place of choice) in public, you are brandishing a firearm and THAT is illegal in the state of CT. You WILL lose your permit if you are arrested for it. There is no "state" permit, it's all done by town. That brandishing law is the one constant through the state. If you wish to carry openly in ANY manner in CT, you need a "blue card" (security guards while in uniform) or a "gold card" (bail enforcement officers, specific to qualifying with the weapon they will be carrying and the ONLY firearm they can have on them to continue to be legal).

The comment of "laws in CT against BRANDISHING A WEAPON" is interesting and it's the first time I've heard that one.

 

[JUMPMASTER]

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Here they are again wrong. The only law that covers brandishing of a firearm talks about a facsimile of a firearm and not an actual firearm. I can find no law that deals with brandishing a real firearm. Maybe someone else can but I can't.

Here is the law:

Sec. 53-206c. Sale, carrying and brandishing of facsimile firearms prohibited. Class B misdemeanor. (a) For the purposes of this section:

(1) "Facsimile of a firearm" means (A) any nonfunctional imitation of an original firearm which was manufactured, designed and produced since 1898, or (B) any nonfunctional representation of a firearm other than an imitation of an original firearm, provided such representation could reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm. Such term does not include any look-a-like, nonfiring, collector replica of an antique firearm developed prior to 1898, or traditional BB. or pellet-firing air gun that expels a metallic or paint-contained projectile through the force of air pressure.





(2) "Firearm" means firearm as defined in section 53a-3.





(b) No person shall give, offer for sale or sell any facsimile of a firearm. The provisions of this subsection shall not apply to any facsimile of a firearm, which, because of its distinct color, exaggerated size or other design feature, cannot reasonably be perceived to be a real firearm.





(c) Except in self defense, no person shall carry, draw, exhibit or brandish a facsimile of a firearm or simulate a firearm in a threatening manner, with intent to frighten, vex or harass another person.





(d) No person shall draw, exhibit or brandish a facsimile of a firearm or simulate a firearm in the presence of a peace officer, firefighter, emergency medical technician or paramedic engaged in the performance of his duties knowing or having reason to know that such peace officer, firefighter, emergency medical technician or paramedic is engaged in the performance of his duties, with intent to impede such person in the performance of such duties.





(e) Any person who violates any provision of this section shall be guilty of a class B misdemeanor.

 

[GoldCoaster]

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Mike wrote:

LKB3rd wrote:

I was working in New Haven yesterday, and there was a police officer directing traffic at a phone company work site, so I decided to ask him what he would do if he saw someone openly carrying a handgun, in a holster, with a carry permit.

Never ask a police officer for legal opinions - what would you expect him to say - that open carry is legal? Come on - comments like that just get police officers in trouble or fired.

I don't think he was asking for a legal opinion, but those guys on the street are the ones that are going to respond to a MWAG call. Right or wrong (wrong) they are probably going to react with their gut feeling and looks like if you open carried in New Haven you're getting arrested and your permit shipped to DPS without any kind of due process. The attempt to sprinkle some doubt on to the patrolmans knowledge may help. If he's not too lazy he might go and look up some statutes and check it out and become more educated. Perhaps he will see the document that was sent to all the PD's as a result of the Goldberg case and think "Oh that's what that dude was talking about".

What we really need to do is make sure the 911 dispatchers get educated, they can stop all the frivoulous MWAG calls at the initial phone call.

"911 what is your emergency?"
"there's a man with a gun walking down the street in New Haven!!!!"
"what is he doing? is he waving the gun around or pointing it at people?"
"no, its in a holster on his hip, but he's walking and he will get away!! send cops!"
"If the gun is in his holster and the man is not doing anything threatening then he is well within his rights to do what he is doing"
"so you're not going to send the police?!?!?!?"
"not unless he pulls it out and starts threatening people"

That's how the MWAG calls need to terminate, right in the dispatch center.

 

[Mike]

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GoldCoaster wrote:

Mike wrote:

LKB3rd wrote:

I was working in New Haven yesterday, and there was a police officer directing traffic at a phone company work site, so I decided to ask him what he would do if he saw someone openly carrying a handgun, in a holster, with a carry permit.

Never ask a police officer for legal opinions - what would you expect him to say - that open carry is legal? Come on - comments like that just get police officers in trouble or fired.

I don't think he was asking for a legal opinion, but those guys on the street are the ones that are going to respond to a MWAG call. Right or wrong (wrong) they are probably going to react with their gut feeling and looks like if you open carried in New Haven you're getting arrested and your permit shipped to DPS without any kind of due process. The attempt to sprinkle some doubt on to the patrolmans knowledge may help. If he's not too lazy he might go and look up some statutes and check it out and become more educated. Perhaps he will see the document that was sent to all the PD's as a result of the Goldberg case and think "Oh that's what that dude was talking about".

What we really need to do is make sure the 911 dispatchers get educated, they can stop all the frivoulous MWAG calls at the initial phone call.

"911 what is your emergency?"
"there's a man with a gun walking down the street in New Haven!!!!"
"what is he doing? is he waving the gun around or pointing it at people?"
"no, its in a holster on his hip, but he's walking and he will get away!! send cops!"
"If the gun is in his holster and the man is not doing anything threatening then he is well within his rights to do what he is doing"
"so you're not going to send the police?!?!?!?"
"not unless he pulls it out and starts threatening people"

That's how the MWAG calls need to terminate, right in the dispatch center.

The 911 call centers and police get better educated if in fact people exercise their rights and fight back when harassed. That's the way it has worked across the states - this question only gets resolved if people do open carry.

 

[mvpel]

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AWDstylez wrote:

Exactly. Getting arrested for something that can easily be avoided (since weall have CCW permits anyway) simply isn't worth it. If Mike would like to OC in CT and get arrested and fight/pay forthe near-endless legal battle, I'll be behind him 100%. I have neither the time, nor the money to get personally involved.

"One has not only a legal, but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws."
- Martin Luther King Jr.

The advantage in CT is that you don't even have to disobey the law in order to stand up for your rights and protest injustice.

 

[JUMPMASTER]

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I was at C3 Tactical Arms in Torrington a week or so ago. I overheard a customer ask an employee if he could open carry once he receives a CT Carry permit. The employee answered, "the statute says can't cause alarm." This really pissed me off because this guy was an employee of a gun store telling a customer false information. There is no State Statute that says anything about causing alarm.

 

[LKB3rd]

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That's the common misuse of the "Breach of the Peace" statute. The idea that causing inconvenience, annoyance, or alarm in and of itself is a breach of the peace. The statute states that you need to be doing one or more of 6 specific things, with intent, or recklessness resulting in, inconvenience, annoyance or alarm. None of them include legally carrying a handgun in a holster with a current CT carry permit.

 

[JUMPMASTER]

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I agree. Maybe the employee is clueless or maybe he was just covering his 4th point of contact.

 

[JUMPMASTER]

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For those traveling to New Britain or within its City Limits be aware of the following city ordinance that prohibits carrying a pistol concealed. You must carry openly any pistolin New Britain. http://www.new-britain.net/liv_ordinances.html

[align=left]Sec. 16-80. Carrying concealed weapons.[/align]
[align=left](a) No person shall wear under his clothes, or conceal upon or about his person any deadly[/align]
[align=left]or dangerous weapon including, but not limited to any pistol, dagger, metal knuckles,[/align]
[align=left]razor, slingshot, blackjack, sword or canegun. The provisions of this paragraph shall not[/align]
[align=left]apply to any person who is found with any such weapon or implement concealed upon[/align]
[align=left]his person while lawfully removing his household goods or effects from one place to[/align]
[align=left]another, or from one residence to another, nor to any person while actually and[/align]
[align=left]peaceably engaged in carrying any such weapon or implement from his place of abode[/align]
[align=left]or business to a place or person where or by whom such weapon or implement is to be[/align]
[align=left]repaired, or while actually and peaceably returning to his place of abode or business[/align]
[align=left]with such weapon or implement after the same has been repaired.[/align]
[align=left](b) This section shall not apply to any law enforcement officer in the discharge of his duty.[/align]
[align=left](Code 1970, § 15-12)[/align]
State law references: Similar provisions, G.S. § 53-206(a).

 

[AGust82]

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That sounds like one of those "you can't walk South on North St. on Tuesdays" laws from the 1700s that was never removed from the books. Try to OC in hard hittin' New Britain and refer to this law to the police and you will just get laughed at as they slam the cruiser door on you. For anyone not familiar, New Britain is a crimestricken hell hole with a hardened police force that will not hesitate to punch you in the ribs. They deal with absolute scumbags all day long and wont treat you any different. If you don't live there, the only reason to go there is to buy crack.

 

[Fritter60]

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That isn't true, I've met several of the New Britain police officers and they're pretty level headed for where they do work. It is a s***Y place to work/live and I wouldn't be here if I wasn't going to school here.

 

[Fritter60]

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Sorry... Double post

 

[MGoduto]

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Here here now. I live in New Britain, and I OC about 75% of the time in warm weather. If you want to buy crack, go to West Hartford!