Nevada open carry reminders for the new guys

[Catfishchris1]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Much appreciated. So, now, on to my next barrage of inexperience oriented questions.
A) I have 3 different rounds to choose from (all store bought).
1. Hornady Critical Defense rounds
2. Federal FMJ rounds
3. Hornady XTP (hollow point)
Of the three, which would you guys find most practical for my daily open carry use. I wouldn't think FMJ because I wouldn't want them to over penetrate and hurt someone else, God forbid I ever have to even use my sidearm.
B) Do you guys think that there's a correlation to the ammunition you carry and how the court verdict would play out of you ever needed to use said ammunition?
C) Has anyone ever had an experience while OC where a kid comes up behind you and touches your gun? Never happened to me, but I'd imagine it has happened to someone somewhere.
D) Does the way I dress and etjnic background I come from matter at all to you guys in getting invited to any of the events? Just wonderingly, haha.

 

[Vegassteve]

Let's not have the ammo discussion here. There have been numerous articles about and videos all over the web. Let's stick to NV and carry here. This thread that Mac, a instructor and one of the best members here, started is already derailed.

 

[Vegassteve]

As far as C And D go. C never. I don't recall any stories of it either in our forum. D some will say dress up. Some will say don't worry. I say dress and act like a decent human and it should never be a problem. And as far as our get togethers it has never been a issue with race or dress.

 

[garand_guy]

D) Does the way I dress and etjnic background I come from matter at all to you guys in getting invited to any of the events? Just wonderingly, haha.

Please remove your burka, I want to see the curves underneath! :banana:

Good post Mac!

The thing with new open carriers that I want to impress upon them is open carry isn't activism, it isn't fashion, and it's not to be taken lightly. Open carry is about protecting yourself. You can choose to do it with a political point, but I prefer it to simply be a subtle reminder that carrying a gun in America is perfectly legal.

 

[Grapeshot]

Please remove your burka, I want to see the curves underneath! :banana:
--snipped--

Why, why, why do some feel the need to be potentially disrespectful to the women reading this forum? I do acknowledge that there is a difference between men and women and vive la différence. Think it is better to lean to the side of courtesy and gentlemanly conduct regarding our sisters, mothers, friends, wives, and children. We are not a good ol' boys smoker club here - we are the ambassadors of good will, welcoming all with equal opportunity and respect.

So ladies wear your burka, camo BDUs, jeans, or tailored suit - my interaction with you will be the same - responsible and polite.

 

[28kfps]

Great thread. MAC giving out great factual info once again. Catfishchris1 adding to what MAC saying about being 18 and carrying. Dress can make a big difference. Saw one posting some time ago one can dress like an assailant or an asset while OCing which do you believe is more likely to get negative attention?

Most definitely agree not disarming if a LEO ask you to. However that is a judgment call. There have been many civilians shot by cops after been asked to disarm themselves. Depending on the situation I have decided if I was asked to disarm by a LEO to show the willingness to comply with their disarming request while not touching my firearm. I am going to keep my hands in the air and loudly say I give you permission to disarm me.

In the hopes it never happens however if the need to defend ones self the best ammo to carry is a well placed one. Doesn’t matter what kind if it does not hit the mark being the most powerful ammo will have the same result as the weakest. Spend that money on practicing hitting the mark is much more beneficial than spending it on expensive ammo.

As far as carrying no more than 6 extra rounds I carry a total of 46 rounds just in case the advisory is carrying 45 rounds.

Never read where a person after having a gunfight, saying sure wish I had not carried all that extra ammo.

 

[qednick]

To clarify, it is also NOT AGAINST THE LAW for a non-Indian to disregard their rules or Tribal laws. The Indians can trespass you from the reservation, much the same as you get trespassed from private property. New Mexico, on the other hand, is a state where is actually against state law to disobey Tribal firearms laws. Indian cops (assuming they are also state-sworn LEOs) can only enforce state laws on non-Indians.

That's pretty interesting Mac...I had thought they were all the same regardless of the state they're in. Learn something every day here!!

 

[MAC702]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Much appreciated. So, now, on to my next barrage of inexperience oriented questions.
A) I have 3 different rounds to choose from (all store bought).
1. Hornady Critical Defense rounds
2. Federal FMJ rounds
3. Hornady XTP (hollow point)
Of the three, which would you guys find most practical for my daily open carry use. I wouldn't think FMJ because I wouldn't want them to over penetrate and hurt someone else, God forbid I ever have to even use my sidearm.
B) Do you guys think that there's a correlation to the ammunition you carry and how the court verdict would play out of you ever needed to use said ammunition?
C) Has anyone ever had an experience while OC where a kid comes up behind you and touches your gun? Never happened to me, but I'd imagine it has happened to someone somewhere.
D) Does the way I dress and ethnic background I come from matter at all to you guys in getting invited to any of the events? Just wonderingly, haha.

I consider you the OP, so you'll get great latitude on the tangents you go off.

A. What bullet type I recommend depends highly on what firearm and caliber you are carrying, which you didn't say. Based on your post in the other thread, I might guess it is a revolver, which means you don't have to worry about testing the hollow point for feeding reliability. But especially with lighter revolvers, you do need to test that the ammunition does not break its crimp on the bullet during recoil. Fire five and examine the sixth that you didn't fire. Look at its crimp carefully and measure it against one that is fresh out of the box for length. If it breaks the crimp, you don't use that ammo for reliability. That said, hollow points are preferred for the higher-velocity cartridges, and which exact hollow point it is matters very little. As with most things in life, pick the one with the prettiest girls in the advertisement. That said, Hornady Critical Defense is a fantastically engineered projectile for most defensive purposes. I carry a low-velocity cartridge most of the time, and use plain lead round nose. It also already starts out at the diameter of an expanded .357/9mm.

B. No. There are some times it was brought up, but it was by no means what made the difference between the guy being guilty or not. Gun magazine article writers, especially cop gun writers like Massad Ayoob, made this a subject of great controversy in the 80's, but even those guys have been silent on it since. I carry my reloads.

C. Not me.

D. Style and ethnicity, no.

 

[mp06011999]

Wow, tons of topics here. Let's see if I can remember all the ones I wanted to reply to....

Announcing to LEO that you are carrying: Not required in NV. The NV. statue only reads that you are required to ANSWER the cop if he asks and if you do not answer then it is a $25 fine. That's it. In Michigan (years ago) it was absolutely required to inform the cop upon first contact that you are a CCW holder and are (or are not) carrying. Each state is different.

Complying with cops in NV: I carry a little card I printed up that reads something along the lines that "I DO NOT consent to any searches and by law (NRS being quoted) cannot legally be detained unless suspected of a crime and am invoking my right to remain silent". If you are stopped while driving you are required to present license, registration and proof of insurance. Not driving, you are required to present NOTHING. And only required to state your name if the cop gives pc you have something to do with a crime or a potential crime. Best bet, say NOTHING ever. But, this is all theoretical for me for I have yet to be stopped while armed.

What to do with the gun if stopped by LEO and asked to disarm: I would put my hands on my head and tell him, "I'll walk YOU thru it, but I'm not touching it".

What rounds to carry to help you in court: It used to be said that you should have the first shot be a ball round so you could claim in court that you wish to not kill anyone and hope that the first shot would scare them away. It's also been said that you should carry EXACTLY the same rounds the cops do so that you can claim that, like the cops, you merely wish to DEFEND and not MURDER. Of course Metro has a reputation of murdering so doubtful that will work here. And it's ALL conjecture. I say, carry the rounds your research shows will best stop the bad guy, for if you don't survive the attack there will be no day in court. And personally for me, I carry Federal Hydra-shoks JHP 147 grain in my nines and in my 380s either the same in 90 grain or PMC Starfire HP 95 grain. But that's just me. Tons of research out there that will allow you to form your own opinion on what you'll like. Oh and don't forget to make sure your gun will eat 'em okay.

Kids touching my holstered gun: Never happened to me. Actually, kids seem to be afraid of it when they see it.

The way you dress / look affects how EVERYONE treats you. Been that way since we got eyes. Some judge more than others. I actually count on it. I learned growing up in Detroit to look like a mean SOB. It didn't make me any meaner, but it fooled the bad guys. Look like a victim, be a victim. Look like a thug, get treated like a thug. Just the way it is...even if some like to think it isn't. As for race, that one is not as bad as it used to be, but I'd try to be white if I were you. Just kidding. We are what we are and unlike dress / looks, you can't change it or how others may stereotype your race.

How many rounds to carry: As many as you care to. There have been studies done that show accuracy in a panic situation is terrible. And I have preached for years, fight that tunnel vision we all get in a panic situation because you will surely miss seeing the bad guy's partner(s). Point being, NEVER assume you need just enough bullets for ONE bad guy. They almost always have partner(s) / lookout(s). On that note, it's also why I encourage point and shoot over aim and shoot. Looking down the sights is great for accuracy, but it makes you focus down the barrel when it may be advisable to keep your peripheral. That's just me....but realizing that is also what made me change my opinion on CrimsonTrace Grip Lasers. You get the best of both worlds - point & shoot with accuracy. Also, as Mac said, in a defensive situation you may not have the use of both hands. Another argument for Lasers. YMMV.

 

[mp06011999]

Oh and I forgot about the Indian Res stuff: Mac is correct that in NV tribal law ONLY applies to Indians. However, they have been known to confiscate your firearm and good luck getting it back. Yes that is illegal of them to do so. And?

For that reason I only carry a firearm I am willing to lose when on the Reservation. And I now CC to hopefully avoid it.

 

[Vegassteve]

However, they have been known to confiscate your firearm and good luck getting it back. Yes that is illegal of them to do so. And?

In Nevada? Im sure we have some folks that would want to take that on.

 

[mp06011999]

In Nevada? Im sure we have some folks that would want to take that on.

I read about it on one of these discussion forums where yep, a guys gun was taken and it had been well over a year and he still hadn't gotten it back. I can't swear it was in Nevada, but believe so.

Think about it, what's your recourse? It'll be your word against theirs. I am absolutely sure it has happened with the regular cops. Detroit PD has some of my stuff (an unregistered gun and switchblade) and my Dad, when he was a cop back in the 60s and 70s used to come home with stuff he took off people. Oh, and there are tons of people in New Orleans that never got their guns back after post-Katrina confiscations. And a retired cop friend of mine from San Jose has shown me some of his "souvenirs" he's collected over the years as well. It happens.

There's a guy on youtube that has some site he promotes that will receive your streaming video from your web connected camera phone so that even if the cops take your camera the video is backed up to the site. Can't recall the name of it though. Great idea as long as you have a data connection. Otherwise, kiss the camera goodbye too.

 

[MAC702]

... receive your streaming video from your web connected camera phone so that even if the cops take your camera the video is backed up to the site. Can't recall the name of it though. Great idea as long as you have a data connection. Otherwise, kiss the camera goodbye too.

Fivo Film is an Android app that automatically puts the file onto the web in your own free DropBox account. It continues recording while the screen is off, also.

 

[28kfps]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Much appreciated. So, now, on to my next barrage of inexperience oriented questions.
A) I have 3 different rounds to choose from (all store bought).
1. Hornady Critical Defense rounds
2. Federal FMJ rounds
3. Hornady XTP (hollow point)
Of the three, which would you guys find most practical for my daily open carry use. I wouldn't think FMJ because I wouldn't want them to over penetrate and hurt someone else, God forbid I ever have to even use my sidearm.
B) Do you guys think that there's a correlation to the ammunition you carry and how the court verdict would play out of you ever needed to use said ammunition?
C) Has anyone ever had an experience while OC where a kid comes up behind you and touches your gun? Never happened to me, but I'd imagine it has happened to someone somewhere.
D) Does the way I dress and etjnic background I come from matter at all to you guys in getting invited to any of the events? Just wonderingly, haha.

If a big-eyed Pear-shaped large headed alien from another world is considered an ethnicity I might be uncomfortable with seeing one at a meet up.
We have all walks at our meet ups. Young a few really old we are even ok with pregnant young ladies who carry. (with humor)

 

[Grapeshot]

If a big-eyed Pear-shaped large headed alien from another world is considered an ethnicity I might be uncomfortable with seeing one at a meet up.
We have all walks at our meet ups. Young a few really old we are even ok with pregnant young ladies who carry. (with humor)

We have all walks at our meet ups. Young a few really old we are even ok with pregnant young ladies who carry. (with humor)[/QUOTE]
All flavors, colors, height, weight, age, country of origin, etc, etc are welcomed equally w/o distinction/reservation.

Armed pregnant young ladies are great - they tend to take no prisoners when physically threatened.
http://www.corneredcat.com/

Additionally, having a pregnant young lady standing by/next to me would be good for my reputation - might help to dispel a myth circulating about me

 

[DON`T TREAD ON ME]

I have become less concerned about the type of cartridge I carry, the more I train. I commonly carry range rounds. They are super reliable, always fresh, (not soaking up CLP for 6-12 months) and effective, if I have to shoot through my car door, being left handed I deal with a tough situation if seat belted in the car. Before considering over penetration... One must consider penetration. 28KFPS is right if one misses, it can be the newest techno wazzu round available. Still resulting in an innocent being injured or killed. Training under pressure is revealing. I was at Front sight over the weekend, My strength was being able to put a shot through a shot at will with unlimited time. Under pressure however it was different, as I completely missed with 2 shots out of 25 under pressure. While the math might not be so bad the idea of two innocents on the ground bleeding is not comforting.

I think getting good hits is more important than what you are attempting to hit them with. Look at the police, they miss all the time. your body breaks down under stress. So far I have not seen a JHP that eliminates stress.

I am in no way saying that JHP's are not a good idea, they are effective in the most sanitary settings. One Poster said he uses the round that stops the bad guy the fastest. I agree with that philosophy, but if that round hits an innocent... It is not coming back. I do not enjoy qualified or any other type of immunity... so my emphases is on hitting the target.

 

[Felid`Maximus]

Thanks for all the tips guys! Much appreciated. So, now, on to my next barrage of inexperience oriented questions.
A) I have 3 different rounds to choose from (all store bought).
1. Hornady Critical Defense rounds
2. Federal FMJ rounds
3. Hornady XTP (hollow point)
Of the three, which would you guys find most practical for my daily open carry use. I wouldn't think FMJ because I wouldn't want them to over penetrate and hurt someone else, God forbid I ever have to even use my sidearm.
B) Do you guys think that there's a correlation to the ammunition you carry and how the court verdict would play out of you ever needed to use said ammunition?
C) Has anyone ever had an experience while OC where a kid comes up behind you and touches your gun? Never happened to me, but I'd imagine it has happened to someone somewhere.
D) Does the way I dress and etjnic background I come from matter at all to you guys in getting invited to any of the events? Just wonderingly, haha.

A) It depends on the caliber... assuming 9mm, I would go with Federal FMJ or Hornady XTP. The critical defense rounds have very low penetration. The XTP is probably marginally best, but I'm not sure the marginal improvement in performance over FMJ justifies the exorbitant price.

Look up "FBI handgun wounding factors" and "Andreas Grabinsky: Gunshot Wounds" Read the first one and watch the second one.

Skin has a resistance of up to 4 inches of muscle tissue and if you are in combat with someone they probably have their arms up in front of their body. I've seen .40 caliber hollow-points stopped cold by the Sternum in X-rays. I do not have a popular opinion perhaps, but I wouldn't want to be dead because my bullet got stopped by a sternum.

Also, look up Agent Dove of the FBI. His winchester silvertip, a low penetration hollow-point round, stopped 1 inch or less before the heart and he died and the gun battle raged on for minutes afterwards. If he had an FMJ, the bad guy would have been dead in seconds.

B) No.
C) No. I carry more than one gun though. If someone tries to take one of them I'm still armed.
D) I welcome people of all background and ethnicity. In general, you can dress however you want without bothering me. But if you're dressed like a KKK Klan member then I wouldn't hang around you and certainly would not invite you.

As for earlier question on ammo, I like to carry 2-3 guns and sometimes speed loaders and spare magazines. This cop ( http://www.policeone.com/police-her...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/ ) landed 17 hits on a perp with a .45 auto before it killed him. More ammunition is always better in my book. A 5 shot revolver can put things to your advantage even if 5 rounds is not a fight stopper, but no one ever wished they had less rounds if they end up in a shootout.

 

[28kfps]

Only two reasons to put any priority on expensive ammo in the name of better stopping power for the average daily carry person in my opinion. Based on tactical training and response after asking tactical training instructors what they carry.
If one is carrying a small caliber firearm or if one can hit the mark every time no matter how intense the situation is such as heart rate, fast breathing, moving for cover, being shot at. And after one has shot enough of the fancy ammo through the gun to have the confidence there will be no malfunctions due to the different ammo.
As stated best ammo is a well placed one of the type one has previous practice with and has confidence it will leave the muzzle leaving the firearm ready for the next round if required.

 

[Craftymommy]

If a big-eyed Pear-shaped large headed alien from another world is considered an ethnicity I might be uncomfortable with seeing one at a meet up.
We have all walks at our meet ups. Young a few really old we are even ok with pregnant young ladies who carry. (with humor)

I know the pregnant comment was about me:lol:
Now I am a young mom to three young boys. I don't take prisoners, alive at least I am really nice once you get to know me though.

To the OP.

I carry a 5 shot 38 special revolver currently with hollow points(can't think of the brand since my husband bought them). I only carry 5 extra rounds, along with a pocket knife. When I had my bersa Thunder I carried one to two extra mags for a total of 14-21 shots. I carried Speer gold dot.

I have had kids see my gun(not including my own) and never had them touch, though I have seen wide eyed looks of surprise and over heard kids asking their parents about it. Nothing direct to me.

As for events, we do an OC meet once a month here in Las Vegas and we have people from all walks of life. I think right now I am consistently the youngest carrying member that shows up, I am 25. Young, old, purple, or polka dotted, we don't care as long as you dress in a manner that makes you appear as a decent member of society.

 

[The Truth]

A) It depends on the caliber... assuming 9mm, I would go with Federal FMJ or Hornady XTP. The critical defense rounds have very low penetration. The XTP is probably marginally best, but I'm not sure the marginal improvement in performance over FMJ justifies the exorbitant price.

I would advise against FMJ for SD in the city. Also, the XTP is an exceptional penetrator for a JHP, but it also depends on the bullet weight. FMJ penetrates too much for city carry and retains too much kinetic energy by design. IMO of course.

Look up "FBI handgun wounding factors" and "Andreas Grabinsky: Gunshot Wounds" Read the first one and watch the second one.

Will do, thanks!

Skin has a resistance of up to 4 inches of muscle tissue and if you are in combat with someone they probably have their arms up in front of their body. I've seen .40 caliber hollow-points stopped cold by the Sternum in X-rays. I do not have a popular opinion perhaps, but I wouldn't want to be dead because my bullet got stopped by a sternum.

Really? Maybe if it were a long range shot with a really light bullet through heavy clothing I might buy it, but a 165gr HST at pistol range would destroy the sternum with a direct hit.

Also, look up Agent Dove of the FBI. His winchester silvertip, a low penetration hollow-point round, stopped 1 inch or less before the heart and he died and the gun battle raged on for minutes afterwards. If he had an FMJ, the bad guy would have been dead in seconds.

Lots of variables to consider. Can you post a cite to this? 2 inches of penetration seems to be extreme underperformance.

As for earlier question on ammo, I like to carry 2-3 guns and sometimes speed loaders and spare magazines. This cop ( http://www.policeone.com/police-her...ne-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/ ) landed 17 hits on a perp with a .45 auto before it killed him. More ammunition is always better in my book. A 5 shot revolver can put things to your advantage even if 5 rounds is not a fight stopper, but no one ever wished they had less rounds if they end up in a shootout.

The article claims the perp was hit 14 times, 6 in "fatal locations." Cop needs to spend some time on the tac range! /s