In Cars?

[Shell]

Hi I'm a Wisconsiner travelling through/to Pennsylvania for the holidays, and I was wondering what the specifics of having a gun in the car are for PA. In WI the gun has to be unloaded, encased, and further than armspan + lunge distance away. I don't have any permits, so I know that I can't OC in the car, but does my gun have to be so obnoxiously closed up and away? Thanks for the advice!

 

[Curmudgeon]

Be careful, and conscientious...

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license

(a) Offense defined.-- (1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree. (2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.

(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:

-snippped for brevity-

(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.

 

[virginiatuck]

Yeah, as Curmudgeon's post states, without a permit, firearms in a vehicle must be unloaded, securely wrapped, and you must be traveling between the enumerated places or comply with one of the enumerated exceptions in 18 Pa.C.S. § 6106(b). That means most of the time you're on vacation, you will probably not even be allowed to have your firearm(s) in the vehicle at all. Once you arrive at your vacation home, you can go by foot and OC.

For example, without a permit, you would not be allowed to transport firearms in your vehicle between your vacation home and a restaurant, mall, or movie theater. Some of the several acceptable examples are between homes, between home and your own place of business, between home and a shooting range, and while traveling to or from hunting.

You may be able to get a non-resident Pennsylvania permit either while you are in Pennsylvania or by mail before you leave for your vacation. http://www.co.centre.pa.us/sheriff/license_application.asp

Other counties will issue to non-residents in a timely manner, but Centre county is known to be one of the best.

 

[Curmudgeon]

And to or through PA makes a big difference. Looks like travelling to PA is going to be a big problem. While traveling through PA, FOPA would apply.

GAH! Now I remember wanting to cover that point as well. Good catch, Navy!

 

[MKEgal]

The permit from the sherrif someone cited above is quick & easy to get. Fill out their form, mail them $25 (I think it was), and you can carry in PA & several other states. But if you're passing through, not stopping except for gas & meals, you don't need to bother. Keep it unloaded & in a case in the trunk.

More importantly, remember: you have the right to remain silent. Use it. You don't have to answer any question, and you don't have to show ID. "Why am I being detained?" is your friend.

Similarly, refuse any requests for a search of your vehicle. If they have to ask, they don't have a reason. If they have a reason, they can get a warrant. Roll up your windows, lock your doors, put the keys in your pocket.

 

[virginiatuck]

And to or through PA makes a big difference. Looks like travelling to PA is going to be a big problem. While traveling through PA, FOPA would apply.

GAH! Now I remember wanting to cover that point as well. Good catch, Navy!

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I've seen other people make the same claim, however it doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't FOPA apply if you're traveling TO PA?

Here is how, I, personally, interpret this law for myself:

A person traveling FROM one's home in one state TO one's vacation home in Pennsylvania, and the inverse, would be afforded protection under Title 18 USC §926A and Pennsylvania law.

First, 18 USC §926A:
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Without a permit, I may lawfully possess and carry my firearm in my home in Virginia. I may also lawfully possess and carry my firearm in my vacation home in Pennsylvania without a permit. Therefore, I may lawfully transport my firearm; unloaded, with the firearm and ammunition locked in a safe in the cab of my truck; from my home in Virginia to my vacation home in Pennsylvania.


Now, Pennsylvania law:
18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
<snip>
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
<snip>
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper <snip> from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back <snip>.


Pennsylvania law has no requirement that either of the person's destinations (homes or dwellings in this case) must be within the State. I may lawfully transport my firearm in Pennsylvania; unloaded, and in a secure wrapper; while traveling from my home in Virginia to my vacation home in Pennsylvania.

Now, once I reach my vacation or recreational home in Pennsylvania I may not transport my firearm without a valid license, by vehicle, unless I am traveling back to my out-of-state home or meet one of the other explicit exceptions to the law; or, traveling to some other destination that is afforded protection under FOPA.

 

[Curmudgeon]

Unless I'm misunderstanding you, I've seen other people make the same claim, however it doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't FOPA apply if you're traveling TO PA?

Here is how, I, personally, interpret this law for myself:

A person traveling FROM one's home in one state TO one's vacation home in Pennsylvania, and the inverse, would be afforded protection under Title 18 USC §926A and Pennsylvania law.

First, 18 USC §926A:
Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

Without a permit, I may lawfully possess and carry my firearm in my home in Virginia. I may also lawfully possess and carry my firearm in my vacation home in Pennsylvania without a permit. Therefore, I may lawfully transport my firearm; unloaded, with the firearm and ammunition locked in a safe in the cab of my truck; from my home in Virginia to my vacation home in Pennsylvania.


Now, Pennsylvania law:
18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
<snip>
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
<snip>
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper <snip> from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back <snip>.


Pennsylvania law has no requirement that either of the person's destinations (homes or dwellings in this case) must be within the State. I may lawfully transport my firearm in Pennsylvania; unloaded, and in a secure wrapper; while traveling from my home in Virginia to my vacation home in Pennsylvania.

Now, once I reach my vacation or recreational home in Pennsylvania I may not transport my firearm without a valid license, by vehicle, unless I am traveling back to my out-of-state home or meet one of the other explicit exceptions to the law; or, traveling to some other destination that is afforded protection under FOPA.

Referring strictly to the part I bolded red, correct, that is the part I was concerned about. The restrictions on carry from point-to-point after arriving in PA. I just wanted to make sure the OP understood. In my opinion FOPA need not enter into it because the travel to your destination is safe in PA.

 

[virginiatuck]

Now, once I reach my vacation or recreational home in Pennsylvania I may not transport my firearm without a valid license, by vehicle, unless I am traveling back to my out-of-state home or meet one of the other explicit exceptions to the law; or, traveling to some other destination that is afforded protection under FOPA.

Referring strictly to the part I bolded red, correct, that is the part I was concerned about. The restrictions on carry from point-to-point after arriving in PA. I just wanted to make sure the OP understood. In my opinion FOPA need not enter into it because the travel to your destination is safe in PA.

Oh, OK.

 

[Tweety]

Sheesh and we in Wisconsin thought we had it bad when transporting a firearm.

 

[virginiatuck]

Sheesh and we in Wisconsin thought we had it bad when transporting a firearm.

Yeah, it's bad, but... At least a license, for carrying in a vehicle or concealed, is available in Pennsylvania and very easy to get; for residents and non-residents alike. Wisconsin's still working on that one, aren't they?