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Have to goto Court in PA because Someone at Wendy's Saw my Firearm

skidmark

Campaign Veteran
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Jan 15, 2007
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Preferring charges is synonymous with indictment. See the state's Rules of Criminal Procedure, Title 234, Chapter 4 Procedure in Summary Cases [your ticket/citation], and Chapter 5 Part B1 Complaint Procedures

Would you favor me with links, seeing as I am too lazy to look for them myself?

stay safe.
 

Steve in PA

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2006
Messages
158
Location
Somewhere in PA
OP: Are you saying you were charged (given a non-traffic citation) for disorderly conduct?

§ 5503. Disorderly conduct.
(a) OFFENSE DEFINED. — A person is guilty of disorderly conduct if, with intent to cause public inconvenience, annoyance or alarm, or recklessly creating a risk thereof, he:
(1) engages in fighting or threatening, or in violent or tumultuous behavior;
(2) makes unreasonable noise;
(3) uses obscene language, or makes an obscene gesture; or
(4) creates a hazardous or physically offensive condition by any act which serves no legitimate purpose of the actor.
(b) GRADING. — An offense under this section is a misdemeanor of the third degree if the intent of the actor is to cause substantial harm or serious inconvenience, or if he persists in disorderly conduct after reasonable warning or request to desist. Otherwise disorderly conduct is a summary offense.
(c) DEFINITION. — As used in this section the word “public” means affecting or likely to affect persons in a place to which the public or a substantial group has access; among the places included are highways, transport facilities, schools, prisons, apartment houses, places of business or amusement, any neighborhood, or any premises which are open to the public.
 

OC4me

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Northwest Kent County, Michigan
Haven't read through all the posts, so sorry if this has been covered.

I just want to emphasis to the original poster that it is HIS responsibility to secure copies of any video evidence. DON'T rely on others (police, prosecutors, etc., even if they 'promise' to do so).

Consult a lawyer also about how to properly introduce the evidence in court!

Failure to do so could result in a bad day!
 

Mr Birdman

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 2, 2013
Messages
209
Location
United States
affordable

Does anyone know how to help me here? I went to a Wendy's for lunch with a friend, I was backing up to park in a handicapped spot and this kid pulled up on my rear and just laid on his horn. I was pointing to the parking spot but he would not stop his honking. I got out of my car went back had a few words with him and evidently my seatbelt lifted my shirt exposing my firearm. I have a Concealed Carry Permit and I never leave my home with out it and my .40Cal. This kid said "well you don't have to pull a gun on me" I said I never touched my firearm and I have a permit to carry. He called the Police and about 10 cars showed up. One Officer said "did you pull your weapon?" I told him No I never even touched it. He said "You know there are cameras all around here" I replied great check them, I never touched my firearm. I had to repeat my story to at least 5 different Officers. My story was the same each time. They had this kid, well I think he was a collage student on the other side of Wendy's and he swore that I pulled my firearm. I was given back my Firearm and given a $460.00 ticket for pulling a firearm and causing "inconvenience". I have not gotten my court date yet but aren't you also allowed to open carry in Pennsylvania, I know Philadelphia does not like it, and even threaten you, but I've heard the this type of thing was frowned upon and no longer happens as long as you are a legal permit carrying citizen. I'm hoping that they have cameras that prove I never touched my weapon. But there is a chance that it was showing because of a lifted shirt. Is there an open carry option in PA. I have heard there is but a lot of Police don't like it, and if I broke some kind of law why did they give me my firearm back. The only inconvenience was caused by this idiot not just going around me then having 10 Police vehicles pull into the lot thinking I pulled a weapon on this jerk.
Thank you in advance for any and all replies or suggestions.



Unfortunately with this case can you afford to be innocent? Fine 460$ Lawyer 1000 or more. Get the tape Get the tape Get the tape. :shocker::shocker::shocker:
 

WalkingWolf

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North Carolina
Unfortunately with this case can you afford to be innocent? Fine 460$ Lawyer 1000 or more. Get the tape Get the tape Get the tape. :shocker::shocker::shocker:

If the hoplophobe does not show up for court, which happens a lot, even with legitimate complaints. The hoplophobe can be sued for the court costs, including the fees to collect the original billing.

Not sure if PA has a magistrate, but in NC before the state will proceed with this type of case complaint needs to be signed before the magistrate. If this is the case in PA, the OP should check to see if he even bothered to appear before the magistrate.
 

Griz

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I'm guessing the issue isn't too pressing. Lotta helpful answers, though.
 

jahwarrior

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The details missing here are all that matters. As mentioned, you are probably better served by not filling them in here. More than likely, they can only hurt you. You've announced that you carry everyday, yet you couldn't tell your firearm was exposed while you escalated a situation, regardless of who started it. A judge may not buy that.

It's happened to me. My gun becoming exposed without my realizing it, I mean. It's part of why I figured I may as well carry openly.
 

MAC702

Campaign Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2011
Messages
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Location
Nevada
It's happened to me. My gun becoming exposed without my realizing it, I mean. It's part of why I figured I may as well carry openly.

I agree it can happen. But if one of those times is while you were escalating an argument, you lose. There is a huge perception difference between openly carrying and exposing a concealed firearm.
 

solus

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Aug 22, 2013
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here nc
OK, 30+ posts, bantering back and forth on approaches the OP should pursue but has anybody verified, validated, or been able to confirm this occurred?

reason i ask if it was swatting precipitated by at the direction of MDA or other zealous antis i would prefer to know how to respond to the hoards of nice LEs who will swoop down guns drawn in their nice swat suits embarking from their nice armored vehicles with lights and sirens.

i personally do not care of aftermath of lawsuits and such since those are in the hands of the shysters who know their craft ~ my concern is living through this ordeal with minimal cell time and so forth.

ipse
 

jahwarrior

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wait, what? You can't declare a law, thats backed by the constitution as invalid. That's just spitting on it in contempt. Where are the mass open carry protests in the most liberal, anti-gun areas of the state? Where is the mass civil disobedience that happened in CT after their attempts at passing a 'law'? Why wasnt the officer reminded of the fact he is required to uphold the constitution and a supervisor demanded when he didn't back down? And why did the OP simply accept the paper extorting money from him for exercising his rights?

The law was passed in an unconstitutional manner; it was added as an amendment to an unrelated bill, a stolen metal bill, to be precise. The people who were pushing for this law to get passed failed to listen to people warning them about this, including my own warnings against it.

As feared, all it took was one judge to strike it down, and rightly so. Maybe next time, FOAC members and their political lackeys won't be in such a rush to have their way that they won't see the drop off in front of them.
 

Niighthawk

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Nov 13, 2015
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Pennsylvania
The punk filed a false report with the officers.
Had you even actually pulled your firearm, you could claim you feared for your safety and Pennsylvania has no brandishing laws and a Stand Your Ground Law is in effect that would aid you.

Were you in the city of philthadelphia, your CCW keeps any and all litigation of open carry off of you since there is a law allowing those with a CCW to open carry in said city.

The police officer in question illegally cited you. There was no actual crime committed and you can actually sue the police department and possibly have an IA investigation brought forward and try to have the officer removed from the force. I detest crooked cops and would do this with great zeal.

There are also the cameras at the Wendy's. You are, under law, allowed to demand a copy of the tape at the time of the whole incident and the actions of the punk would be evident.

Then, the 911 call made by said punk can be used against him in filing a false report. You can sue him to no end for slander and mental anguish. I would do it since I don't take such things lightly and would jack his life up for being an idiot for even trying to mess up my life.
 

MAC702

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...Stand Your Ground Law is in effect that would aid you.....

Please refer to it by words used in the law itself. It is much more accurately called a "No Duty to Retreat" law. "Stand Your Ground" is the nickname used by those who are against self-defense and enjoy the negative connotation of the nickname.
 

Fallschirjmäger

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Preferring charges is synonymous with indictment. See the state's Rules of Criminal Procedure, Title 234, Chapter 4 Procedure in Summary Cases [your ticket/citation], and Chapter 5 Part B1 Complaint Procedures
You are absolutely correct... in summary cases as defined by Title 18, Section 106 (c). But since we don't know what his official charge was, how are you so sure it's only a summary offense and not something more serious? Not to belabor the point but firearms offenses are usually considered to be fairly serious especially ones that could be considered deadly like drawing a pistol on someone.

(c) Summary offenses.--An offense defined by this title constitutes a summary offense if:
(1) it is so designated in this title, or in a statute other than this title; or
(2) if a person convicted thereof may be sentenced to a term of imprisonment, the maximum of which is not more than 90 days​
.

I have a sneaking suspicion that for any real crime, i.e. more than 90 days in the pokey, it's the district attorney (by whatever name) who will be actually preferring charges since it's his duty to know the law and not the officer's. And no matter how much it means to Officer Friendly, if the DA doesn't think there is the ability to determine guilt beyond a reasonable doubt the matter isn't going to court (certain circumstances such as 'we want to be dicks' excepted.)
 
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Grapeshot

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--snipped--
There are also the cameras at the Wendy's. You are, under law, allowed to demand a copy of the tape at the time of the whole incident and the actions of the punk would be evident.
FIOA of private property owner? Cite please.
 

davidmcbeth

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FIOA of private property owner? Cite please.

Well FOIA would not apply. But discovery likely would, I would assume the cops already had it (who knows right). Subpoena the record...if it exists anymore.

The OP should have just shut his mouth. Cops likely would have just left. I get cops called on me all the time just for doing first amendment stuff. I'll either have messages at home from cops asking me to call them back or they approach me where ever.

I have mitigated these issues over the years via: 1) notices of trespass served upon governments 2) orders of no contact (where I remove the consensual contact aspect of the 4th amendment)
 

Fallschirjmäger

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FIOA of private property owner? Cite please.
As there is no "Freedom of Information Act" that applies to private property owners, I doubt anyone can provide a citation.

As has been mentioned, prosecution and defense are allowed to subpoena relevant evidence and testimony. I can probably find a citation to that effect if pressed.

//Confrontational language removed by me. My apologies as I hadn't yet had my coffee and was being obstreperous//
 
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davidmcbeth

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As there is no "Freedom of Information Act" that applies to private property owners, I doubt anyone can provide a citation.

As has been mentioned, prosecution and defense are allowed to subpoena relevant evidence and testimony. I can probably find a citation to that effect if pressed.

//Confrontational language removed by me. My apologies as I hadn't yet had my coffee and was being obstreperous//

http://www.state.ct.us/foi/2001fd/20010725/FIC1999-257R.htm

http://www.state.ct.us/foi/2001fd/20010725/FIC1998-380R.htm

My state's FOIA Act can apply to private companies which can be private property owners.

I think most states' FOIA Acts do so as well.
 
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