It is the policy of the business, due to several factors, not the least of which being that the person running the background check is supposed to have the ID in his hot little hands when answering some of the questions on the computerized NICS entry form.Is this your policy? Or is it a business policy.
Why would you need to hold the ID when that information is on the 4473?It is the policy of the business, due to several factors, not the least of which being that the person running the background check is supposed to have the ID in his hot little hands when answering some of the questions on the computerized NICS entry form.
There are several other checkpoints along the way where information on the IDs is double-checked.
We often give the IDs back for a spell while, for instance, the customer goes over to the other side of the store to buy cigarettes and beer. (We are a full service alcohol, tobacco, and firearms dealer.) However, our processing stops during such spells.
[on edit: Thank you for your thoughtful replies. Discussions with you are typically fruitful.]
That would be in violation of law.I suspect that the cashier has the authority to deny the sale if a ID is not allowed to be scanned to verify authenticity.
I am not going to go into every detail of our process (especially considering your propensity to nitpick just to be antagonistic). Suffice it to say that we are not the normal FFL. We are also the federal government. That presents interesting uniquenesses in how we must conduct business. There are federal and military regulations that add to our processes.Why would you need to hold the ID when that information is on the 4473?
FORUM RULESI am not going to go into every detail of our process (especially considering your propensity to nitpick just to be antagonistic). Suffice it to say that we are not the normal FFL. We are also the federal government. That presents interesting uniquenesses in how we must conduct business. There are federal and military regulations that add to our processes.
I mention that we hold the ID cards only to illustrate that a personal policy of never handing over ID cards could have an unintended consequence.
Please provide the federal statute that authorizes the regulation and when that regulation was published in the federal register.(5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.
I am not going to go into every detail of our process (especially considering your propensity to nitpick just to be antagonistic). Suffice it to say that we are not the normal FFL. We are also the federal government. That presents interesting uniquenesses in how we must conduct business. There are federal and military regulations that add to our processes.
I mention that we hold the ID cards only to illustrate that a personal policy of never handing over ID cards could have an unintended consequence.
Cite please.That would be in violation of law.
Go back to my posting of the statute. The cashier would have to have some legal support for denying service when all the law requires proof of age. I believe the statute also allows for the obvious, you look ancient.Cite please.
Yes, we all know.....Thank you for proving—so quickly—the point I was making.
After a few months of civil discussion from you, I might just change my mind about you.
I suspect that the cashier has the authority to deny the sale if a ID is not allowed to be scanned to verify authenticity.
Your statute cite is not relevant to my point, see bold above. Thus the cashier would not be violating the statute you cite. In other words, all IDs are fakes until scanned to prove their authenticity. Within the confines of the capability of the scanning device to actually verify authenticity...that is. But, how would a dude wanting a pack of smokes know if corporate is lying to him about the scanning thing.Go back to my posting of the statute. The cashier would have to have some legal support for denying service when all the law requires proof of age. I believe the statute also allows for the obvious, you look ancient.
Since we are talking about Virginia:Your statute cite is not relevant to my point, see bold above. Thus the cashier would not be violating the statute you cite. In other words, all IDs are fakes until scanned to prove their authenticity. Within the confines of the capability of the scanning device to actually verify authenticity...that is. But, how would a dude wanting a pack of smokes know if corporate is lying to him about the scanning thing.
§ 59.1-443.3. Scanning information from driver's license or identification card; retention, sale, or dissemination of information.
This should answer both our questions/statements.A. No merchant may scan the machine-readable zone of a Department of Motor Vehicles-issued identification card or driver's license, except for the following purposes:
B. No merchant shall retain any information obtained from a scan of the machine-readable zone of an individual's identification card or driver's license except as permitted in subdivision A 3, 4, 5, or 6.
- To verify authenticity of the identification card or driver's license or to verify the identity of the individual if the individual pays for goods or services with a method other than cash, returns an item, or requests a refund or an exchange;
- To verify the individual's age when providing age-restricted goods or services to the individual if there is a reasonable doubt of the individual having reached 18 years of age or older;
- To prevent fraud or other criminal activity if the individual returns an item or requests a refund or an exchange and the merchant uses a fraud prevention service company or system. Information collected by scanning an individual's identification card or driver's license pursuant to this subdivision shall be limited to the individual's name, address, date of birth, and driver's license number or identification card number;
- To comply with a requirement imposed on the merchant by state or federal law;
- To provide to a check services company regulated by the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act, (15 U.S.C. § 1681 et seq.), that receives information obtained from an individual's identification card or driver's license to administer or enforce a transaction or to prevent fraud or other criminal activity; or
- To complete a transaction permitted under the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act, (15 U.S.C. § 6801 et seq.), or the federal Fair Credit Reporting Act, (15 U.S.C. § 1681 et seq.).
C. No merchant shall sell or disseminate to a third party any information obtained from a scan of the machine-readable zone of an individual's identification card or driver's license for any marketing, advertising, or promotional purpose. This subsection shall not prohibit a merchant from disseminating to a third party any such information for a purpose described in subdivision A 3, 4, 5, or 6.
D. Any waiver of a provision of this section is contrary to public policy and is void and unenforceable.